Are caliper spacers evil?

44Dwarf wrote: Spacers are not bad BUT heres the thing thay have to be made well and shiped well. Nice and flat and nice and smooth were the fluid crosses over do not sand them smooth you need to lap them with a circlular lap so you have no scratchs the go across the o rings. Offcourse hardwear to hold them must be at least grade 8 if not 10.9 stuff and the stock size may not be up to the bending loads put on the bolt now that there spread apart. But if the kit is out there try it but make sure to take your time and check it offten the 1st few weeks.

I don't think he's talking about spacers between two halves of a multi-piston caliper to make it accept a thicker disc. I think he's talking about caliper brackets to allow it to fit over a disc of a different diameter and/or offset.

Mowog wrote: Wow. Thanks, mom.

You're very welcome. =P Now make sure you're wearing clean underwear next time you go back to TOTD.

The only time i have ever had issues with brake fade on the street is in situations involving cell phone using escalade drivers pullng out infront of me going 30 mph slower than i am with no signal and things like that. I dont drive hard enough to fade the brakes on the street either. I know lots of people do though, I went on a alfa club drive, and I was suppsied that people who were way old enough to know better would drive like that on public roads. But, having said that I have driven a car with a big brake kit and it is really quite nice.

If you're getting fade on a single stop (which would be the case with an emergency stop involving an SUV), then you need to take a good hard look at your braking system.

BTW, the brake kit I ordered for my SVT Contour featured Cobra rotors and calipers and a caliper bracket. I'm assuming this is the same thing you're talking about. It help up great on the street and on the track.

Black brackets on the left of the picture: http://www.baer.com/gallery/index.php?g2_itemId=962

Your brakes should be fine in factory form. In all honesty, there aren't many OEM braking systems out there that can't step up to the job of any level of track duty. (Aside from ditching drums for discs.) With good enough pads, you can pretty much do anything.

Big brake kits allow for lower level pads to perform better. So yes, bigger brakes help, but they are often not required like most people think. To give you an example from my experience, I used to track my 86 Crown Victoria. I did all of my track weekends on the stock braking system. That's 11" diameter single piston calipers in the front, 11"X2" drums in the back. (We'll just leave the rear brakes out as they never really did much, yeah for drums!) I never stepped up to real track pads for the Vic because I never needed to. I ran PF Z-Rated pads for 2 weekends, and Hawk HP+ pads for 3. I did fade the Z-Rated pads a few times. However, running used Hoosier R3S04 245 slicks, I never had a problem locking the front tires up even at 110mph+ (Limited by gearings so 117 was about tops). I did not fade these brakes at all.

Now this is where I learned about brake pads. After all this I finally upgraded the brakes. 2 piston calipers, and 13" rotors. I stepped one step down in brake pads, fromt HP+ to HPS. My brakes aren't half as good as they used to be. The pedal feels great, it stops great. But one pathetic step down in pads and even with 2 full inches of extra rotor I still have brake fade even on the street with street tires.

(In my opinion) In the equation of brake systems, stopping power is determined about 75% by the pads alone. I learned this lesson again with my Celica. I started with Carbotech XP8 pads, and ran into some light fading on Summit Main Course. So I switched to XP10s in the front and XP8s in the back. I beat the heck out of them and never had any more fade issues. My brakes are single piston 10" solid (that's non-vented) rotors in the front and rear (obviously smaller caliper in rear). Front is stock 1976 Celica brakes, and rear are stock 1986 Corolla discs.

Really a good set of nice low dust low noise street pads is what you need. And then a second set of extra dusty, squeeky, noisy, rotor ripping pads is what you need for the track.

The BEST pad EBC makes isn't track worthy if you push your car at all. The best demo video they could come up with for the yellow pads was a "rally" through a suburban neighborhood with a top speed of 90mph.....pathetic.

I appreciate everyone's input!

I think i'm going to try one more hail mary on the stock setup and see what it gets me.

Ordering a new set of brembo blanks and some better pads. I won't have driving impressions on these until springs, on the Dragon more than likely, as the car is being taken off the road to recieve it's new motor transplant shortly.

This is going to be a car with enough power to be expected to trap 120+mph in the quarter mile.... so if anyone thinks that a stock setup isn't up to the task, PLEASE speak now.

Thanks again guys

Keith wrote:

44Dwarf wrote: Spacers are not bad BUT heres the thing thay have to be made well and shiped well. Nice and flat and nice and smooth were the fluid crosses over do not sand them smooth you need to lap them with a circlular lap so you have no scratchs the go across the o rings. Offcourse hardwear to hold them must be at least grade 8 if not 10.9 stuff and the stock size may not be up to the bending loads put on the bolt now that there spread apart. But if the kit is out there try it but make sure to take your time and check it offten the 1st few weeks.

I don't think he's talking about spacers between two halves of a multi-piston caliper to make it accept a thicker disc. I think he's talking about caliper brackets to allow it to fit over a disc of a different diameter and/or offset.

I'm talking about this....

http://store.revolutionbrake.com/toprbrsy.html

So yes... i think you're right.

Mowog wrote:

Salanis wrote: If you can lock your wheels or engage ABS, you don't need extra braking power. You need a better tire choice. You braking force is limited by the traction of the tire as much as the brakes themselves.

I hear this on every forum when this subject is brought up and it always amazes me. Almost any car on the street can lock it's brakes or engage ABS when hauling itself down from speed. Once or twice before things get hot. 90% of street cars have just enough capacity to get by.

This was pretty much my point.... a few panic stops is a bit different than (to quote) "318 turns in 11 miles." And they aren't small turns. Gas, brake, gas, brake, gas, brake, gas, brake constantly for 15 minutes or so. Like a REALLY long autocross with elevation changes and sometimes higher speeds.