Are there any cheap, new cars available in the U.S. that are NOT drive-by-wire?

New as in '17 or '18 model year.

Cheap as in under $15,000 base price. Think econobox, Fiesta, Focus, Versa, etc.

NOT drive-by-wire as in I'm a Luddite and I like to drive my cars, not engage in a simulated driving experience. I have yet to meet a DBW system in my budget that I like as much as a good old cable.

I'm looking for something cheap that returns great fuel economy, is a manual, and will last long enough for me to commute back and forth to work in for the next five years and then pass on to my kids. I usually log about 15,000 miles per year.

I mean, aren't DBW systems better though? Lighter, fewer wear items, and the ability to change the gas pedal from an air inlet control to an actual torque request?

Tom Suddard said:

I mean, aren't DBW systems better though? Lighter, fewer wear items, and the ability to change the gas pedal from an air inlet control to an actual torque request?

They sure can be, but the big manufacturers usually set them up to be worse.

None that I know of, pretty sure that ship sailed a few years back.

None that I can think of. With the advent of all of the safety systems it's pretty much a requirement to have DBW in place.

Think of something like Subaru Eyesight. If the system panic brakes, it has to cut the throttle otherwise you may overpower the braking attempt. 

You can also remap the pedal action too. Most are set really soft on tip in and then "Sport" mode just makes it more like 1.1 motion. 

Doubt there's any left that aren't DBW, but I will give a +1 to the ability to change how they "feel" with a quality tune on any given car, providing someone does aftermarket software for that car.    

I get that they can improve fuel economy and work with other safety systems, I just don't like the feel.

The wife's Outback was terrible, absolutely horrid. Her Caravan is tolerable.

My father-in-law's new EcoBoost F150 isn't bad but it's just not for me.

Get the Outback reprogrammed. It's a pretty simple table actually. Is it the gas pedal or the CVT that is horrible because I found most of my complaints were actually a by-product of the CVT. 

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1537010

A 2014 Fiesta ST is a $15K car and ticks most of the boxes.  You give up some MPG for SPM (smiles per mile) but you can stick with the base model I suppose.  

I think this ship sailed at least ten years ago.  The e-throttle on my SX4 is a top five complaint I have about the car.  There used to be a guy that seemed to be making good money reprogramming the ECU to have it act more like a throttle and less like a committee meeting about how to make the car worse to drive but that's ended.  

I think this theory works pretty well with turbine engines on aircraft.  Not a fan in cars.

Fiesta st.

I'm sure you'll be having too much fun to care about the dbw.

The biggest problem I have with Throttle by wire is "just because you ask for more power doesn't mean you'll get it.". Pedal always feels too soft as well.

If there is, I bet it's the Mitsu Mirage. It generally seems to be a decade behind

pinchvalve said:

A 2014 Fiesta ST is a $15K car and ticks most of the boxes.  You give up some MPG for SPM (smiles per mile) but you can stick with the base model I suppose.  

If going for base models, check out the Mazda 2.  I much preferred it over the base Fiesta.   The ST is an entirely different story.  

I doubt even new specialist cars like caterhams and stuff could be had with a throttle cable. As has been said already, the dbw system is heavily integrated with safety and emissions controls.

My biggest beef other than the lack of feel, is the fact that timing shifts and clutch control maneuvers is usually pretty balky. It's NEVER as smooth or predictable as a good old fashioned cable.

Gearheadotaku said:

The biggest problem I have with Throttle by wire is "just because you ask for more power doesn't mean you'll get it.". Pedal always feels too soft as well.

I would imagine that's an issue with the pedal return spring, not the throttle stat.

The DBW in both my 2003 E46 and 2004 TSX are just fine.  No complaints here.

freetors said:

I doubt even new specialist cars like caterhams and stuff could be had with a throttle cable. As has been said already, the dbw system is heavily integrated with safety and emissions controls.

My biggest beef other than the lack of feel, is the fact that timing shifts and clutch control maneuvers is usually pretty balky. It's NEVER as smooth or predictable as a good old fashioned cable.

My FoRS is DBW and a manual.  It works just fine and the only time I screw up shifts is when I screw it up. 

Honestly, if you can't manage to adapt to the way the throttle works, perhaps the issue is you and not the vehicle?

Just a thought.

The dbw throttle is much less of an issue than the DCT in the Fiestas I've been driving lately. (Genuinely feels sketchier than the half broken 727 in my old D350, and one of them dumb brats the doesn't mind an auto trans that works)

Wife's 06' Sentra died last month and we ended up picking up a Corolla IM to replace it. The DBW is my only complaint with that car (other than the payment). If you switch off all the nannies it get's marginally better, but not much. AND you have to be at a full stop to turn it off, it's not something you can do on the fly. I tried bombing up an on ramp with it the other day, and kept asking for more throttle to pull it into the corner and it flat denied me. It wasn't till the wheel got straight again that I was able to accelerate.  

We test drove a manual version of the car when we were shopping. (ended up with the auto, due to it's her car and if her mom needs to drive it etc) Trying to down shift made me thing it had a V8 cast iron flywheel, there's no blipping the throttle to downshift it. You just have to mat it and wait for it to spin up.

I'm really hoping to find someone to remap/recalibrate/tune that damn pedal soon. Otherwise I may just join the rest of the world and be getting rid of it soon.

In reply to Mr. Lee :

Your 06 Sentra was also drive by wire, if you weren't aware.

The E39 M5 is drive by wire. Eight of them, actually. Nobody ever complained about the throttle in those, just the opposite. Plus it allowed the use of a Sport button that changed the throttle response. I've used DBW tuning to change how the pedal works in my V8 Miata. Because it's programmable, it can be done well or done poorly - but that's not the fault of the technology, only the implementation.

One thing Luddites don't understand about DBW is that it allows the engine to react faster. Instead of measuring the air going into the engine and adjusting the fuel/timing parameters to suit with a little bit of lag, the ECU knows how much air is coming the instant the accelerator pedal is depressed so that the engine can be ready when it arrives.

It's also turned the pedal from a throttle to a torque request. Modern cars play all sorts of games to give you the torque you want when you ask for it. They'll even juggle the timing and the throttle plate to manage the temperature of the primary cat - that's why most modern cars sound weird for the first 30 seconds or so. Put a vacuum gauge on them and you'll see they've got the butterfly open at idle.

FWIW, just re-calibrating the pedal to "output" curve may not always work.  If you want it right, you also have to change the safeties around it- most will fault if you get more throttle than the safety systems expect.   I know you all hate these "nannies"- but it's to make sure that the throttle isn't sticking open, which is a pretty bad failure.

Daylan C said:

The dbw throttle is much less of an issue than the DCT in the Fiestas I've been driving lately. (Genuinely feels sketchier than the half broken 727 in my old D350, and one of them dumb brats the doesn't mind an auto trans that works)

Thankfully, that is going away soon.

The auto trans, or the Fiesta?

In reply to STM317 :

The stupid trans.