Article suggestion, no idea, no make that demand!

I've heard that you don't want to get any herculiner on your hubris.

I can't really say much other than I like the magazines.

As far as the Staff goes; other than asking Margie to recite the Gettysburg Address and some FB messaging, zinging JG for getting his testes caught in his pants , and emailing with Tim and Tom a few times, I haven't had any personal interaction. But, the contact that I have had has been low key and enjoyable.

As a former staffer, I can't think of one single person working at GRM now, or who was working at GRM then, who wasn't in it for the pure love of it. I've personally watched them pursue batE36 M3 crazy ideas to ridiculous ends just because it was cool, or stay up all night hobnobbing with grease-stained wretches trying to pull a challenge car together in a parking lot, only to host the even the next day with nothing but smiles and grace. I've seen them pull automotive miracles from hats at the last minute and make it look easy. And most of all, I've seen an unwavering commitment to ALWAYS trying to produce the best damn car money they know how to. Not for the money, best damn car magazine, period.

You may not like the content direction, and that's fair, but dude, I don't think you can question the commitment. Or the possibility that some staffers possibly should be committed. But that's a different thing.

You spend enough time around in public as a high profile individual, you'll piss someone off. It's inevitable. So it goes.

I've subscribed to HRM twice in the past few years and dropped it twice, even at $10/year. It's just fawning articles on million dollar showpieces followed by pictures of Drag Week. Profiles of cars tend to be a mind-numbing list of purchased parts. They seem mostly interested in their own history and how cool they were. If GRM was like that, it would be a lot less interesting. Profiles of cars tend to be about problems solved and obstacles overcome, which is the good stuff of a project. Although I do agree that the event guides don't do anything for me either.

There have been some good fabrication articles in the past couple of years of GRM. Anything by Carl Heidlman is an automatic read.

BTW, I do have one complaint about the current issue. The cover says This weekend! No more excuses! Get on track! Guys, it's JANUARY. We don't all live in Florida

Keith Tanner wrote: BTW, I do have one complaint about the current issue. The cover says This weekend! No more excuses! Get on track! Guys, it's JANUARY. We don't all live in Florida

Could have fooled me. Apparently we just moved to third place in population behind California and New York.

And sadly it is crazy cold here this week. Had to get out the hoodies and flannel shorts.

OK I just figured out HRM is Hot Road magazine. I used to like it, but it jumped the shark a good while back. I never subscribed to it. I was a long time subscriber to Autoweek and R&T. Dropped Autoweek a long long time ago when Satch Carlsson was ditched. Dropped R&T when Peter Egan was the only reason to keep it (and now he's gone). I subscribed to Automobile because my son was getting it. When I got sick and tired of Jamie Kittman's and Jean L. Jennings arrogance, I dropped it too, even though it is a slick publication and cheap.

I've been a long time subscriber to GRM, but will probably not renew when my 10 year sub runs out. It's not the magazine that changed as much as my interests that have.

I've been subscribing to CM for a while and just renewed with a 10 year subscription before the new format. If I'm still alive when that sub expires, I may not renew. I hate to be another poopie head, but I feel CM has slipped in its quality. Not the actual magazine itself, but the content. It's not page count that matters to me as much as what is on the page. Many of the articles are about upcoming car shows and events and a lot are recaps of past car shows and events. I was thrilled when the article about the Quail showed that a 64 Spitfire was at the show! But the photos included one small photo and several postage stamp sized photos (one of which was the Spitfire). Please ditch the extra small photos. I hope this is not looked at as critical as much as constructive. And I agree with a previous poster, if you can write a better article, do it!

My limited dealings with the staff on the phone have been two thumbs up. I wish I could have made some of the 20XX events or the Mitty and met you folks in person. Your support of these events makes the subscriptions worth it. Much of the underlying theme in the mags and on this board has been Tim's and Margie's struggle to produce successful magazines. I think you guys have arrived. Congratulations!

This thread reminded me I need to whitelist GRM domains in Adblock so y'all can make money off of me..

Oh crap, I seem to have accidently started a merde storm. Sorry staff, writers and fans.

No I don’t read as many articles as in the past, but GRM / CM are the only magazines I subscribe too and the only US based magazines I read at all. I also have to say that the staff are always extremely responsive, helpful and, surprisingly given the 4th graders we all act like at times, patient and polite too us. I’ve met the Suddard family when they stopped by Dearborn a couple of years ago on their road trip and they were all great people. I don’t’ know if it was luck in my timing or I had any effect, but I once suggesting a progressive suspension build article and six months later one was in the magazine, so I know they listen to us.

I’m deeply sorry for starting this with what was a tongue in cheek but still serious suggestion for an article or series of articles. Thinking about it they have done something similar a few years ago when the compared a Group C Porsche 962 with a spec Miata. That was great. My favorite articles in the magazines are stories of one form or another. I love the pieces in CM that tell a story, I loved the prewar Lancia from last year that was owned by two brothers and bricked up for the duration of the war and still in the family. I loved the story about the secret Cobra’s etc. These while informative of the cars, but the story tells so much more just the car, they gave you details of the people, the times, the atmosphere. That’s what I find most satisfying.

I also love following the development of project cars over the months/years. Again they are a developing narrative of what has worked and what hasn’t. I felt for Tim when the first 914 engine turned out to be duff. I loved it when after completing the Ro-Spit they had to re-design the rear suspension to make it work (sorry, still too much yellow under hood and inside!!). I love it when the writer looks at what is needed, not what the ‘bestiest’ there is to just bolt on. Yes we all know that diamond encrusted titanium shaft Ohlin shocks pressurized with a 50:25:25 mix of Nitrogen, Senna’s farts and Hamilton’s morning breath are the best there is when looking for the last 0.00000000000001 second on your ‘stock’ autocross hot hatch when timed on an atomic clock. Fine, but the magazine really gets it when they bust a shock on a rally, rush to the local auto factors and buy whatever no name part they have on the shelf to finish the rally. 10,000,000 bonus points were given for writing ‘KONI’ on it in Sharpie to make it work better. I’m a sucker for a narrative.

I also love features on cool build people have done be it a challenge entry (particular favorites were the CRX Corvette and the ‘ShoGun’ type Mid engine SHO Festiva), another couple of great ones were some companion features where a car build was featured plus info on the event it entered. Three come to mind. The BMW 2002 built with an M42 engine that was then driven on the One Lap of America, the original Beast Miata the Keith and Flyin Miata built, the Blue turbo one for the multi day West coast open track challenge. And the S50 powered E12 for the Targa Newfoundland. Other notable ‘build’ features I remember are the carbon bodied ‘B’ mod bike engine Civic, the challenge yellow supercharged 2002 and (I don’t’ recall if this was GRM or CM) The feature on the MGB based MG TF replica. All great stories. Here’s another suggest for the future. JD Kemp (Who’s MGB Lucretia McEvil you featured years ago) has built a 5/4 sized Mallock style ‘Clubman’s’ car. His build has been documented on the Locost forums, but an article with nice pictures when he’s got it sorted with the body work would be an awesome one. Interesting, inventive and unusual build always grab my attention

As far as even coverage is concerned, I skip it unless it’s a multi-page first person account of being involved in something such as Pikes Peak, Targa Newfoundland, One Lap etc. I just doesn’t works for general event coverage, I understand why it’s there, but unless it’s your car in the picture I don’t think going to be of interest to anyone. Let’s face it Autocross is completely boring to watch unless you’re running at the best of times, trying to summarize an event is going to be tough even if you were PG Woodhouse Douglas Adams.

I believe the magazine has most definitely listened to feedback from us on vehicle profiles. For a couple of years they really went down in content and quality, they’ve really been coming back. The two best features I remember though were the original (of what is it now four times?) you did the Porsche 944 series and had the side bar ‘I liked it so much I bought the company one myself’ and the old one on the Mazda 323 GT/GTX, that so impressed me I bought one!

One more thing I don’t think works that well is how too’s That doesn’t tell a story and if you want to know how to weld, or how to fab, cut, fold, shop safety etc., I think those things are far better served by the internet where space is not at a premium and you can link to lots of pics. They ‘feel’ like fluff fillers to me in the print mag, they may be better suited as online ‘bonus’ features. It works better when referred to as part of a series, one article on ‘how we painted our project car’ detailing the strip down, home prep and send it out works much better than pictures of cans of paint, stirring sticks, mix pots, filters etc. I think you did that with the Volvo 122 build.

At the end of the day what ‘I’ want from the magazine is a combination of inspiration and living vicariously through other peoples experience. I may not have the time money or skill to build a scratch built Pikes Peak special then take it out there and race it, but I’d love a ‘story’ about someone else doing that where I can day dream on my daily commute how I could do the same thing or better, right up until I get home and see my own project getting more deeply buried under household crap.

One last thing, I have always been and will always be a believer in Grassroots in it’s true definition, not as is cheapskate. An enthusiast running a historic F1/F2/F3 car with a bunch of mates will always be more grassroots to me than someone ‘buying’ a fly and drive seat in a Lemons race. Owning a $200k supercar and driving it across the continent to hit some epic track days is way more grassroots than rule book picking the perfect $10K stock class autocross ringer, adding $5k in shocks to cherry pick a trophy. Grassroots is an attitude, not a pocketbook.

Once again sorry for the poopoo storm.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Grassroots is an attitude, not a pocketbook.

Quoted because it needs to be pointed out from time to time.

spitfirebill wrote: ... I was thrilled when the article about the Quail showed that a 64 Spitfire was at the show! But the photos included one small photo and several postage stamp sized photos (one of which was the Spitfire). Please ditch the extra small photos. I hope this is not looked at as critical as much as constructive. And I agree with a previous poster, if you can write a better article, do it!

That's a good point. Look at the Euro magazines like Evo and Octane. Lots of big gorgeous spreads instead of trying to pack in all the details. There are so many cars at events like the Mitty, you'll never be able to get them all. But a big pic of a Porsche 962 battling it out with a flamethrowing Trans-Am Mustang on track goes a lot further towards capturing the event than a bunch of small pics of little tiny cars.

I do disagree with Adrian that "how to" articles are best found on the internet. I have a very high level of skepticism about the qualifications required to post online. A good article written by an expert, motivated by the fact that he's getting paid is much more useful to me. An example of how you can't please everyone

I've been reading car magazines of all types since I was a kid. My elementary school library had a subscription to all the big ones in the 80's, and I gravitated toward Car Craft and Hot Rod. I grew up on those, and have subscribed to Hot Rod, Motor Trend, Popular Hot Rodding, Car Craft, Car and Driver, Hemmings Muscle Machines, and other magazines over the years. The only one I still subscribe to is Grassroots Motorsports.

Why is that? For a few reasons: I find GRM articles and content interesting and fresh, I find the editorial content worth reading, and the events that they host that I attend or are interested in attending are covered in the magazine.

In the latest issue, they have a towing article. That interests me, as my friends and I are always towing crappy cars around and it's nice to see a proper article in a major publication on the safe way to do that. What other magazine would do that? They know their audience well.

In addition, I've spoken face to face with just about everyone on the staff at one time or another. They are the most approachable and nice people in charge of an event or publication that I have ever met. I even consider a few of them to be friends after hanging out with them at the Challenge over the years. These are people that genuinely care about what they are doing and the future of the topics they cater to.

My personal opinion: GRM is going in the RIGHT direction. I look forward to reading every issue that comes in the mail. If you are going to change something, maybe add more Challenge coverage, as it's one of the best ways to get non-GRMers involved with the reader base. That's how I got involved and how all of my friends did as well. I have been a subscriber and lifetime GRM'er since attending my first Challenge event in 2009.

Fun fact: I read about the GRM Challenge in Hot Rod back in the early 2000's. They were talking about Andy Nelson's Nova.

I agree with previous writers. When Road&Driver and Car And Track got together, they ended up with neither. I dropped those subscriptions. Now that Autoweek has started dedicating entire issues to push specific corporate brand's models, I will drop their subscription as well.

What I like about CM & GRM is they are still operated by those who are interested in their subject matter. Is either one perfect? No. If even one issue was perfect to me, it would be terrible to you, etc., etc., we're all different.

What these two mags. do have in common which is important to me is, is they primarily try to appeal to most of those who enjoy their rides. However they choose to enjoy them. And yes, like everyone else CM & GRM still must pay their bills through ads & maybe even butter up to an advertiser from time to time. I wish it weren't true but it is.

I hope to meet several of you again at the Mitty this year. Over a beer or two we can set out to solve all the world's auto related problems. Or not. Meanwhile, I'll just read and post. At least at GRM & CM, they encourage us to read, post, & even disagree with them and each other! That means a lot to me!

Bravo, Bravo, Bravo to Adrian Thompson for an excellent post. You eloquently summarized everything I too have liked about the magazines in the past. But unfortunately I was not as eloquent as Adrian. I too should apologize for posting the post on this thread that started the poo-poo storm. And sincere apologies also to Margie, Joe, David, JG, et al for any insult my postings might have caused. I certainly didn't mean to do that. And I wish I could strike that damn "hubris" word from my post. Also I don't have a bone to pick with anybody, as some have incorrectly speculated. However, I think my ham-fisted way of starting the poo-poo storm actually led to some extremely productive discussion (except maybe for the one about hummus, which was like cracking a joke at a funeral). I know everything will be taken into consideration and acted on appropriately.

I will most likely renew my CM subscription when it expires mid-year because even at full price it's not a lot of money. I have a long history with it, and I'm hoping to be happier with the content a year from now.

Well, now I have another problem with you, Gary. You just referred to Adrian as "eloquent".

Tom_Spangler wrote: Well, now I have another problem with you, Gary. You just referred to Adrian as "eloquent".

Just imagine if you were still my editor, I'd rock the world then!

Thanks Gary

One thing you can count on---- we will continuously work to improve both of our magazines.

btw, I approve of the facebook photo posted a little while ago.