Bets of Morbidity - The Sedanocalypse.

2 door car for under 20 grand? Small pickup with standard cab? Very thin pickings here

I would be 100% fine if they discontinued every single sedan out there. I really, really, really, really hate sedans. They are disgusting.

Just give me my lovely wonderful coupes.

Gearheadotaku wrote: 2 door car for under 20 grand? Small pickup with standard cab? Very thin pickings here

Civic coupe starts at $19k. Just sayin.

As much as I thought I preferred small hatches and such, my time with them has proven otherwise. My prime example is the current focus. Last I looked, a hatch was a $1k premium over a sedan. The rear vertical space is useless. Maybe once a year I would haul something big enough to use it but otherwise, no. My tune may change once you get to vehicles big enough to haul an assembled bike or to sleep in.

Brian wrote: As much as I thought I preferred small hatches and such, my time with them has proven otherwise. My prime example is the current focus. Last I looked, a hatch was a $1k premium over a sedan. The rear vertical space is useless. Maybe once a year I would haul something big enough to use it but otherwise, no. My tune may change once you get to vehicles big enough to haul an assembled bike or to sleep in.

You can't fit a assembled bike in the back of a new focus hatch?

I like a sedan with roof racks. Good look.

Remember what happened thr last time chrysler cut their b segment sedan? We got the caliber and life was sad. The dart was a step in the right direction but a- it's a pile and b- everyone still wants a neon. If chrysler had just stuck the neon badge on the dart, and pretended the caliber never happened like ford did with the 500/taurus, they'd be fine. Plus, this cheap gas can't last forever. Maybe chryco will try and iacocca their way out of it like the 80s and we'll get k cars and omnis all over again.

In reply to mndsm:

I think the problem is now everyone is going to assume that every small car Chrysler makes is secretly Italian, and they'll probably be right. I'd be ok with the 2017 Dodge Daytona Shelby Turbo Z though.

Chadeux wrote: In reply to mndsm: I think the problem is now everyone is going to assume that every small car Chrysler makes is secretly Italian, and they'll probably be right. I'd be ok with the 2017 Dodge Daytona Shelby Turbo Z though.

Im not sure having them secretly be fiats makes them worse. The previous generations of those cars were plenty berkeleyed up without italys help.

Also, I'd rock the hell out of a throeback daytona Like that. Mayne chrysler just needs to dig out the old 2.5t, update it, and put it in all the things.

alfadriver wrote: A guy at worked pointed this out to me- next time you see an old 50's sedan- check out the size of it. It may very well remind you of many CUV's, and not modern cars. It's not until the 60's did they get low and "small" here.

Yeah, in the 50s a typical car had enough headroom that a man could keep his hat on when he got in. I remember reading this was a complaint about the "flat top" 4 window 59/60 Cadillacs, not enough room for the hat.

EvanR wrote: I hate trunks. I think they are idiotic and far less space efficient than any hatchback/SUV/CUV/station wagon. I applaud the general public for agreeing with me!

I find the shortened hatch area on them tends to cancel out any benefit the improved access and height provides.

At least the was the case with the Elantra GT compared to my Sedan.

As long as the cargo fits through the trunk opening, there is more usable floor space for cargo in the trunk compared to the hatch. Not to mention the cargo isn't going to bounce around the interior in an accident causing additional injury.

BrokenYugo wrote:

alfadriver wrote: A guy at worked pointed this out to me- next time you see an old 50's sedan- check out the size of it. It may very well remind you of many CUV's, and not modern cars. It's not until the 60's did they get low and "small" here.

Yeah, in the 50s a typical car had enough headroom that a man could keep his hat on when he got in. I remember reading this was a complaint about the "flat top" 4 window 59/60 Cadillacs, not enough room for the hat.

Good points! Take critical eye to the mid-50's Chevy Nomads, picture them with modern low profile/large diameter LT tires to increase ground clearance slightly, and tell me what you see... proportionally, they were pretty much identical to today's mid-size crossover. Put modern suspension and drivetrain on it, and it would be the first crossover I would ever actually want to buy!

stuart in mn wrote: People initially liked SUVs because they allowed the driver to sit higher than other cars and have better visibility. However, when every vehicle on the road is an SUV, what will they do then?

Bingo. I think of this as a cycle. Since the automobile love affair started post-war, there has always been a class of non-car vehicle that was wildly popular with family drivers. For 20 years it was the station wagon, but the 73 oil crisis made people rethink everything large. Then in the early 80's Chrysler came out with the minivan, and that took off. The problem was, unlike station wagons, all of a sudden car drivers couldn't see E36 M3 any more. There was no way I would represent in a minivan, but Ford had just managed to civilize the GMC Jimmy/Ford Bronco into the Ford Explorer, and Jeep fixed the XJ into the ZJ. So I could have a car I wouldn't be embarrassed by, but I could still see in city traffic. And then pickups suddenly got to be less Spartan, so that option opened up.

I think car market share will always stay at or above 40%, because there will always be a ton of people who really don't want or need anything big. My Mom just sold a really nice Legacy wagon after two years and got a Forester, because the Legacy was too big. When I come into the city, the cars parked in the residential areas are rarely big vehicles. And there will always be a big niche for intrinsically appealing sports cars like Miatas and Corvettes.

The SUV / CUV s killed the wagon market, now they're killing the sedan market. I can understand it because of the greater utility of the 2 box shape, but I still have my sedan. I think we're the only family in the neighborhood without a truck, SUV or CUV.

Lots of older people and people with chronic injuries/pain like minivans and SUV/CUVs for the easy of getting in and out of the vehicle. I think that's why in previous generations, the elderly bought larger and larger cars as they got older. Partially to cocoon them as they inadvertently stab the accelerator instead of the brake pedal but also for seeing out of it and egress/entry.

You guys wanting small cars and sedans to carry cargo are using the wrong tool for the job. I don't want my sedan or coupe to carry cargo. I have a Suburban for that. We don't need every car in the world able to carry a goddamn refrigerator. ;) I miss full size personal luxury coupes and sporty coupes that the musclecars were built out of. Chevelles, Torinos, the original Charger, Monte Carlo, 2 door Impala SS, Galaxie 500s, GTOs, Mercedes 560 SEC, Jag XJ6C, BMW 6 series and 8 series... I even want to convert my 7 series to a 2 door that still looks like a 7 series not an 8 or 6.

And all the imported coupes off sedan chassis, like the Datsun 510, Mazda RX2 and RX3, Topyota Corolla SR5, etc. Miss those cars.

In reply to Chris_V:

Ah, the luxury of having more than one car....

Moreso, when the need is so few and far between.

Y'all need to start buying more of these:

alfadriver wrote: In reply to Chris_V: Ah, the luxury of having more than one car.... Moreso, when the need is so few and far between.

Luxury? I had more than one car when I lived below the poverty line. I had more than one car when I lived in an apartment. 68% of households even now have 2 or more cars. If you need it or want it, you find a way to have it.

Chris_V wrote:

alfadriver wrote: In reply to Chris_V: Ah, the luxury of having more than one car.... Moreso, when the need is so few and far between.

Luxury?

Annoyance then?. Most people don't want a car to drive them around and another car to carry the occasional item that won't fit in the trunk of a normal car.

But yes, to many it is a luxury.

In reply to MCarp22:

What is that? A kia? And why do the wheels look oddly like flowers? Its honestly not a bad looking car. Since im posting ill add my two cents. I HATE coupes with a back seat, they make the doors so dang long its hard to get out of. For example my girlfriend has an 8th gen accord coupe, its the same lenth as a yukon but has 1/8th the interior space and 1/10th the trunk not to mention a back seat that fits two as long as they are shorter than 5'6". Our other two cars? Two volvo 240s one is a sedan that i love (mine) and hers is a wagon. I can sit in the back seat of either volvo all day long and carry tons of my tools around and both are smaller than the accord. Now dont get me wrong i love coupes that are two seaters but add a back seat and im completly uninterested.

ProDarwin wrote:

Chris_V wrote:

alfadriver wrote: In reply to Chris_V: Ah, the luxury of having more than one car.... Moreso, when the need is so few and far between.

Luxury?

Annoyance then?. Most people don't want a car to drive them around and another car to carry the occasional item that won't fit in the trunk of a normal car.

Still the wrong tool for the job. Why compromise and get a hatch for the "occasional" possible use of it? Just get a coupe/sedan and RENT A TRUCK when you need it. Not this:

A sedan may cover 90% of all use cases of a car.
A hatch may cover 99% of all use cases, with basically zero downside.

Its far more cost effective to rent 1% of the time vs. 10%

I'm thinking the Acura ILX may die soon. Not sure I've ever seen one IRL.

I have no real desire to drive a raised up vehicle (SUV/CUV whatever), but everyone else sure does. On my commute it's rare for me to see the sun because I'm always in the shadow of a Yukon or whatever.

In reply to Chris_V:

Dunno about you, but getting groceries in and out of a CUV hatch is REALLY easy- since it's already a bag height, and there's no overhang.

For MOST people, a small CUV is better for their lifestyle than a car is. Why have 2 vehicle when even on a daily basis, the CUV is easier to live with than a car?

BTW, I know the utility of a tiny car- I commuted for 17 years with a Miata- as it's all I needed. My wife is much happier with an Escape than she was with an Alfa 164. While it's not as cool, it's just easier. So when we retire, and really cut back on the vehicle count, the Escape size car will be it. But we don't have the compromises that one has to deal with on a full size truck or SUV. Ugh. Too big, and terrible on gas.

chiodos wrote: What is that? A kia?

Yes, it's a Forte Koup SX. Comes with the 200hp turbo motor out of the Hyundai Veloster Turbo.