BRZ/FRS/86 Drivers, Long Term Ownership Experience?

Anyone done a tune or anything? How hard/expensive are they to liven up takeoff a little bit?

I test drove another one a while back and still couldn't get over the lack of oomph off the line--I know it isn't meant to be fast, and it IS faster than my Miata, but somehow it feels slower. The delivery is just too linear.  

Also, Z31--what specifically with the steering wheel is wrong?

the '17+ has a 4.3 rear which helps. 4.1 on earlier ones.

The tune just makes the tq delivery even more linear. Helps remove the hump in the middle of the rev range.

I have the OFT and have it tuned on e85 currently. Really easy to do and only ~$500 for a decent bump in power. e85 really wakes the car up (torque dip is still there, but barely). If that's not available the tablet also includes 91 tunes and there is also plenty of cheap headers on the market that help the bump the torque dip. If you get the OFT, all the OTS tunes are free so its a pretty good bargain. Ecutek (the more renowned option) costs ~$1000 for an e-tune.

How's the cost of operation on E85? Similar?

Maybe a little more expensive. It does drink it down quite a bit faster, but the prices (at least around here) are ~$1 cheaper than 91. Haven't done the math yet, but wallet tells me it is similar in cost. It does need more trips to the fuel station.

How do the E85 tunes work if you're stuck filling up somewhere that only has E10 available? Or if you end up with a tank of half and half? Can the computer just figure it out and switch to a regular old 91 octane tune by itself, or do you need to load a different tune at the time you fill up? 

Never paid much attention to E85 because it was never widely available in my area, but the station nearest to my house just put in E85 within the past year or so and I'm intrigued by the gains being reported for the Frisbees. 

Furious_E said:

How do the E85 tunes work if you're stuck filling up somewhere that only has E10 available? Or if you end up with a tank of half and half? Can the computer just figure it out and switch to a regular old 91 octane tune by itself, or do you need to load a different tune at the time you fill up? 

Never paid much attention to E85 because it was never widely available in my area, but the station nearest to my house just put in E85 within the past year or so and I'm intrigued by the gains being reported for the Frisbees. 

 

You have to re-tune each time (If you own the OFT). With Ecutek there's map switching built into the cruise control stalk. You can also get a flex fuel kit for either OFT or Ecutek, which avoids the hassle. But it does work in a pinch - run tank down until fuel light, flash to 91 map, fill up with 91 and drive calmly for the first 10-20 miles.

If this isnt too much of an off topic question, id like to know if any of you frisbee owners have driven the nd and how you think they compare.

I really like them both, my gut tells me nd because miata but these frisbees are coming down in price.

If yall dont want to derail this thread please disregard, this is just the most frs/brz owners in one thread , hoping some of yall have driven the miater.

You need to keep the OFT in the car unless you run a Flex Fuel Kit. If you have a Flex Fuel kit, install components and the tune, and don't worry about what E% is in the tank.

The best bang for the buck is the Open Flash Header + Open Flash Tablet. If you have access to E85, you just added 25-30whp and removed the TQ dip.

mtn, the outer "layer" is peeling off and revealing the foam underneath in a few places. 

In reply to Opti :

Derail away! I'd be interested to hear the discussion. Did you mean ND, or FD though?

I haven't driven an ND, but dayumm they are sexy :). I was eyeing one hard when me & my wife were hatchback shopping. Unfortunately, that didn't last too long since the wife can't drive manual & the ND is far from a hatchback.

And yea, the OFT is made pretty cheap. There is a cable (Tactrix I think?) that allows you to flash the OFT tunes without an OFT, but the tablet is quite nice since it gives you lots of datalogging and is a tune-station built in.

I got my wife one of the first burzes in Canada, a limited, to play with me at the track. The thing has been an absolute champ. My E30 is a psycho and I can't/don't want to drive it for more than a few laps at a time so this thing gets tag teamed at track days all day long and it just takes it. My wife refuses to let me modify it until she feels she's outgrown it so I have been beating on a bone stock one for around 3-4 years now and it's a terrific car.

I saw gripes in this thread about the interior and I'm not sure what that's based on. Granted ours is a limited but I'm an interior material snob and the interior in this car is excellent for a non-luxury car. The door panels are nicely padded, the dash is a soft rubbery plastic etc. It's a very nice place to be.

That said, it's no soft cruiser, that's for sure. It's quite stiffly sprung and appropriately damped. Which makes it really good on a race track, it's really hard to justify putting an aftermarket suspension on it. It BADLY needs front camber plates but beyond that... until you do a LOT of other changes, the stock suspension is really good!!! On the track... on the street it's fine but you'll know it when you hit every imperfection in the road and going over pot holes makes my scrotum tighten. We have two Corgis so I can't really speak to putting a BIG dog in the car but it's a great place for two Corgis to ride...

The main thing that I don't like about it for a daily is noise. Someone earlier said that they left the sound deadening out and I can't disagree with that. They also supposedly pipe engine noise into the cabin for some dumbass fuhraze reason but I hate driving it back long distance from the track unless I set a very pedestrian highway cruise. Over 120kmh, or I think about 75 in British units, the engine noise is omnipresent and the new cars are supposedly even shorter geared.

In every other way, I have nothing but good things to say about it. It's roomy, it's practical and it's reliable. We've had 0 issues with ours, except needing a new engine. Heh, don't be scared. It was a carwash who was told not to shampoo the interior, who shampooed the interior and ran the engine all day to run the heater to dry it out... with the engine washing bag on the engine which was sucked into the crank seal and plugged the oil pump. They returned the car to the shop with loud knock and ran away. Subaru took the engine apart, showed us the chunks of bag they pulled out of the oil pump pickup and I was expecting to have to pay for a new engine, since I never thought I'd get any money out of the carwash even if I got a court judgment. This proved to be partially correct because Subaru Canada came out and said we'll give you a brand new engine for free, just pay for the labor to change it. We did and never got a dime for the labor from the carwash.

Anyway, there are a few known defects, like the tail light condensation which we haven't experienced, a click/clunk from the rear parcel shelf (almost like body panels sometimes shifting against each other) which we have experienced but Subaru hasn't been able to find what it is. We never got the chirp although we got the pump replaced under the TSB. We also put in the Raceseng plate preemptively but we never had the stock tin cover plate on the back of the engine leak as some have.

I've never worked on the car since I refuse to do oil changes myself even though I have a lift in my garage for the racecar, not worth my time. But if I were to work on it, I can see it being a pleasure. The boxer engine has no giant plastic covers which is typical today and I didn't see anything I couldn't reach. I'm used to BMWs where transmission and starter work requires some serious mcgyvering of extensions and wobbles but on this car, I can put my hand on the transmission or starter while leaning over the engine bay. I know someone who swapped a motor in their car and he said it was the easiest engine swap he's ever done because other than a few wires like ground, the entire engine harness is on one giant plug - you undo the fluid lines, the couple of connectors, the main big one, engine mounts and transmission bolts (leaving the transmission in place) and the engine comes out, he said it took around 1 hour the first time he did it...

On track it's a pure joy. It does anything you want and when you ask for something it can't quite do, it is very gentle in letting you save yourself. It's a shame how slow a 200hp car is nowadays but it's a ton of fun bone stock. With some big tires and maybe 3-400hp there isn't much that would keep up with it at a track day.

Here's a few laps from a track day, bone stock car with some good brake pads and summer tires:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylZuoorpxU0

An example of a brown flag moment in a 100mph turn that it lets you get away with. The other driver made a point to find me the next day to give me the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyCVcngohU4

My $0.02...

'13 FR-S owned for almost 3 years, had 10k miles when purchased and I've put about 22k miles on it since.  Purely a street car/DD, never tracked or autoXd.  Has 3 mods.  Did the OpenFlash Tuner after 4 months and it made a very noticeable difference. Helped the obvious "torque dip".  Car still isn't very fast in a straight line, I ran dead with an Altima sedan with a 2.5 & auto from 0-50 mph from a stoplight when we both apparently were trying to get ahead and change lanes...Next mod was APEX ARC-8 wheels 17x9 with Continental DW tires.  I hated the look of the stock wheels, probably went overboard on width for the street, but they look really good.  Might have taken away a bit of the fun on the street though due to the added traction...Last mod was a shifter knob, has good weight but I got a metal one so extreme temperatures make it uncomfortable to touch (bad touch!).

Handles like it's on rails!  Love the chassis which is quite rigid, handling dynamics are very good (street only experience), feels like it could easily handle a significant power increase.  Dash layout is pretty good, gauges are clear and easy to read.  Limited maintenance that has been needed is easy.  Considering how low it is, I only had to drive onto a 2x10 board under each front tire to be able to perform an oil change.  A low profile floor jack can slide under the front to jack it up.  Filter is accessible from top of engine, belly pan does not need to be removed to change the oil. 

No reliability issues so far, but the throwout bearing is getting noisy.  Paint is thin as mentioned by others but similar to the '00 Celica SWMBO bought new.  Drivers seat is wearing on the outboard side bolster where my posterior rubs getting in and out due to my short inseam.  The combo of long door, short legs, narrow parking spaces means I sorta "squeeze" in and out and rub my butt on the side bolster.  Seats are very comfortable for me once I'm in...

Factory radio sucks, don't know how else to put it.  Touchscreen is a PITA.  When I go to adjust the volume, the station changes because my hand/finger waved near the screen but when I want to select a preset station I have to put forth a lot of effort.  Have to take eyes off road to go between presets unless you don't care what you're listening to.  Antenna won't pick up a station that isn't broadcasting from the same parking lot... I had to quit listening to audiobooks because the volume won't go up enough to actually hear it (some of that is due to the poor pavement quality and wider tires making more noise, but most of it is the lack of sound deadening). 

All of that being said, it's been a Love-meh relationship for the past 6 months and I'm contemplating a fleet makeover in 6-9 months.  Commuting in it is relatively boring, noisy, and not the most practical unless you have a fun commute.  I have one or two potentially fun spots on my commute, but it is heavily dependent upon time of day/traffic volume. 

I have no issue getting the tail loose with 255 Star Specs..................I also probably take normal corners dramatically faster than most. 

I wholeheartedly agree with everything @BigD has said (especially the parts about it on track - what a darling this car is on smooth tarmac), *except* about the famous "Crickets". I've had those since pretty much day 1, but its just something you have to learn to deal with and nowadays I hardly notice (except when I'm in a drivethrough with the windows down or something ;)).

Also, the throwout bearing issue *does* remind me- I've had to have Toyota replace mine & the shift fork under warranty. Was making terrible sounds at ~30k miles. Thankfully they covered it, but one dealer kept insisting it was the clutch and wouldn't cover it. I had to take it to another dealer who promptly laughed off the other tech's assertions. Something to keep in mind if you're looking at '13s - they do have an updated TOB that seems to resolve most of the issues. I've heard mixed reports on the factory clutch fork, but there is an aftermarket option that seems to remedy those issues.

P.S. don't drag race this car, I've given up on that since I lost vs. a Veloster turbo (at least I hope it was a turbo). Theoretically, of course.

I've been babysitting a BRZ for a while. My feelings? Once it leaves, I want to buy my own. For me, at least, it's the perfect daily driver. It's the right size, offers plenty of performance, and just feels right. Aside from losing the hatch, it's like a modern interpretation of my old 240SX. On track, it feels just as good, too. It's like a hard top Miata, kinda. 

In reply to BigD :

How did you manage to get crossed up in corner 4? That’s pretty much a straight LOL

LanEvo said:

In reply to BigD :

How did you manage to get crossed up in corner 4? That’s pretty much a straight LOL

The faster you take it, the less pretty much a straight it becomes, and the more the hump at the crest upsets the car. But it was mainly my fault. I had also been experimenting with a tighter line though the turn since the car is so slow, trying to shorten the track and practicing turning in where I'd be passing people. It was working well but asking for more rotation than usual over the hump. It was making the car move around but nothing spectacular. That lap I was going to pack it in and head home since the tires had greased up and I was sliding around more and more. Going down 4 the back decided it wasn't having any of it. Basically called it a day one lap too late.

In reply to BigD :

I was just screwing around. Not trying to be a jerk...sorry!

All joking aside, one day we sat down and reviewed data logging there (not in my car...I don’t have data). Turns out steering angle was something like 2 degrees. That’s not an exaggeration. The camber and the elevation changes basically make the turn for you. After learning that, I became a lot more confident entering the corner without lifting.

Of course, it’s easy to charge in “full throttle” when you have no power (like me). But even the fast guys in high-HP cars are able to do it. So, I just started trusting it. I tell myself it’s just a downhill straight. 

I recently purchased a FRS with about 80k for 12k even so will chime in with a few things that haven’t been mentioned. 

FRSs are def cheaper and more plentiful if you’re more budget conscious and don’t care about interior material or the HID lights. Mine was a one owner, mostly highway example so they are out there. Most of the BRZs weren’t in that price range. 

If you have the spare cash I would try to go for a later year example if possible. Seems that some of the earlier issues were worked out by the 2014/2015 models (like cam shaft issues and coils). 

My daily commute is short so it’s been fine during the winter with a set of snow tires. YMMV depending on how much snow you see. 

Plenty of people take the car to the track. I’ve Been to only three events with the car but I’ve seen anywhere between 3 to 20 cars there all with friendly people (mostly on the younger side)

anything else you want to know just ask!

Enjoyed this thread. I've contemplated swapping my S2000 for a twin. I love how they look and I love how they drive. I can also fit the whole family in a twin. Then I get into the S2000 and it's hard to part with it :(. 

I hope it works out for you OP! 

Also the ND is an absolute blast to drive. I think the FRS/BRZ get a leg up on it for the hard top and extra rear space behind the driver if you're a dog person. 

Well I finally bit the bullet, and roughly 50 miles in I couldn't be happier!

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It's a one owner 2015 with 46k. Really good shape overall, no dents or dings that ive noticed, just a few scratches near the trunk opening. Drives great. Alcantara interior, which I thought I didn't want, but it looks so good its growing on me. Bought it CPO from the Toyota dealership by work, so it's got warranties and stuff, which is something I've never had before. This is the newest car I've owned by nearly 20 years!

It's a blast to drive, i took the long way home from the dealership and could have kept going for another couple hours. Really good ride/handling balance for a sporty daily. It's been quite a while since I've had a car geared this short and that likes to rev this much, so it's fun having to work the gearbox for a change, rather than having a torquey I6 or V8 that just pulls.

Next order of business is going to be dog-proofing the interior so Bear can't berkeley it up too badly. Think I'm going to fasten some sort of blanket between the front headrest and rear seatback so he can ride back there and the rear seat is protected. Seat covers up front might not be a bad idea either, even though I generally have a strong dislike for them. After that, I'll need snow tires and then that's probably it for a while - going to try to leave this thing alone and not mod it much.

Why not just lay the back seats down to protect the upholstery? 

Also, congrats on the purchase! Enjoy! 

I literally traded mine in yesterday morning after 3.5 years and 39k miles. 

Pro tip, change the trans fluid to Motul or Red Line IMMEDIATELY and take what you thought was a nice gearbox and make it even better.

In reply to z31maniac :

Folding the seats was what i had originally planned to do, but I'm not sure if that would still leave the edges unprotected. I also wouldn't mind having the front seatback protected and a barrier between to keep his paws off the center console. I'll try a few different ideas tomorrow and see what works best.

Thanks for the tip on the trans fluid and congrats on your new ride as well!

Nice! Congrats on the new ride!