Can we talk about the 2019 Challenge?

Ok, so I know I am looking way out to the future when I dont even know what I am going to be doing this weekend, but hear me out.  I was about three weeks away from being able to attend this year.  I found a sweet little B2000 with a  5.0 and a dana44 swapped in.  It would probably autocross like a school bus with a flat tire, but it sure wouldve been fun to find out.   The hangup came when I decided to throw some paint on the ol girl.  I had a  buddy that owed me a favor and said he would throw some paint on my truck if I bought the materials.  Great! or so I thought.... they dont call it paint jail for nothing....  Even though I made it as clear as I could that I needed the truck back no later than two weeks from the day I dropped it off it ended up taking about a month and a half.

My point is, it seems like a few other guys got bit as well (Machinebrau & Eastsidemav) come to mind and Im sure Im forgetting a few others.  After reading a few of the post challenge threads and logging away a few of the pointers from the Nelsons it seems that one of the main keys to success is start with a good body that can be had for reasonably cheap.  The trouble is, this is a situation that takes a lot of patience to find and when it does, may only leave the poor challenge builder a few months to build a car only to have it fail at the event or in my case miss out entirely by a few weeks.

Probably like many of you I have been scouring back alleys and Craigslist for abandoned wagons and unloved race cars in hopes of mashing the two together in a redneck blend complete with bad welds and dry rotted slicks.  So far I have not found anything that is both cheap enough and cool enough to warrant a look in the flesh.

What I propose is that the community decides what the subclass will be for 2019 so that we can all have an additional 11 months to score those crazy deals and put together a winning machine the likes of which the challenge has never seen! on paper at least... Im sure in the last weeks concessions will still be made and the paint will still be drying on the concourse pavillion but a man can still dream cant he?

well you picked a subject that takes about a year to Develop, Fix up your Truck and come down this next year even If you don't race you will begin to understand how this works ,

The sub class is decided on somewhere between the Hot tub and Stampies Bar In the Parking Lot. don't fret over this, they kept telling me to Just come to watch once and get the Feel of it. I did not Understand this Concept,

I went this year and have a better Idea , Like being in a Fog in the Bog. this past year was Pick up and some or most will be back Next year along with the wagons It's like the Never ending Story.

Don't try to build a car for next year, Build what makes you Happy . you will be Glad you Did. so yeah your building a truck but it won't be the only one and with a year to Test and Tune you should be Good to Go.

The thing is, Im a flipper so Im constantly buying and selling.  I had a Datsun 411 wagon about a year ago that I let go for pretty cheap and would love to have  back for this project.

As far as coming down and NOT competing well, I dont think that is going to happen.  I would have to take off at least 4 days from work; add hotels, food, travel expenses, etc and I would just be annoyed with myself for not at least bringing some derelict camaro and turning gas into noise while finishing dfl.

I kinda see the sub class as a JV, a way for a newbie to compete without having to go all in against the seasoned pros.  My thinking was that if we knew what the sub class was two years out, competitors could keep their eyes open a little bit longer for those once in a lifetime deals or cars that are so funky they are cool.

Plus, I liked the idea of a race truck and now I like the idea of a muscle wagon.  In another thread someone mentioned the point of the sub class was to turn something that has no racing pedigree into a race car and that appeals to me.

Well, very very likely I'll be bringing my truck back for $2018. And like you said, I think there are some trucks that I really wanted to see that didn't quite make it.

I got bit by scope creep. I wanted a scratch-built frame. I wanted IFS and custom 3-link rear. To make it to $2017 Challenge, I would have had to cut too many corners. Then I went over budget. I still technically have under $2,017 in the whole thing, but I exceeded the recoup limit on the donor car.

The sub-class is an inside joke, a wild-card, and mostly for fun. You only have 1 year from the genesis of the sub-class, so there's only so much you can do. It's interesting to see which sub-class cars return the next year. Look at how luxury cars (okay just Q45's) suddenly got popular.

I do fully plan to bring the Rice Rod as an Exhibition entry next year...if it's done...

Assuming I don’t have enough time in life to finish my new project I will be bringing back the Q”Ute”45 back for $2018. 

I like the whole 1 year to bring your subclass car. The subclass is for the people that don’t have a chance to win the overall. At least that is my opinion of the sub class. 

In reply to Pattyo :

You say you are a flipper, always buying something.  Focus less on what and focus more on finding the best purchase you can.  

I started the Aristocrat Class by calling in out Robbie (who wrote above) for the BMW 7-series he purchased the year after my Q45 #1.  I especially called him out after I bought Q45 #2.  It was super fun and put a second race in the middle of the race.  

I often give one word advice to someone considering The Challenge and that advice is GO.  That means that until you attend you still wont get the scope of the whole event.  At least that was my experience when I went my first year as "crew" and have returned back every one of the 4 years since with 11th, 10th, 6th from bottom and 13th place finishes.  All fun and all a great time.  

Don't get pigeon holed to playing the set game.  Examples would be to only go for Overall or only go for Sub-Class.  There are many ways to play and all are fun.  

As I detailed over in this thread find a Chrysler Crossfire for an easy path to a 6th-12th finish.  

Real example: '05 w/129k asking $2.7k  The seller has up multiple listing (like 8) on CL right now.  Some of the pictures vary in different postings and all are nearing 30 days old.   I see numbers on the windows in a few pictures.  That tells he bought this at auction.  It looks sort of rough.  In one picture you can see sun burnt roof paint.  It is a total stripper model in black with cloth and manual.  The interior cloth looks dirty as hell with some seat bolster ripping.  The seller is too cheap to replace a $20 interior door grab handle???  

He wants this car gone and at this point I'd do my best to convince the seller to just unload it at a loss.  I'll bet he doesn't still own it because he is turning down offers.  I more bet that he still owns it because just no one ever calls about the car.  

You are also learning a lesson that many know...Just getting to The Challenge can be the greatest challenge! 

There were two popular things last year, AMC and "trucks". Trump them both with this!  

AMC Hornet Cowboy

I appreciate the feed back from those that have experience but I still cant shake the feeling that an extra year wouldnt do some good.  Right now I am looking at participating in the wagon subclass because I think it would be super fun to build a crazy sleeper that can run the dogs to the park when its not running mustangs. I have a few other projects that I could work on year after year that might eventually turn into a competitive rig but I have far too much automotive add for that....

So again that brings me back to the sub class and wishing we could decide on 2019.  I might have looked at three cars that are perfect for it but wont know for another 11 months and in that time Im sure they will be gone.  Looking at it from a magazine perspective wouldnt they benefit from having more participants in the subclass?  More odd ball cars in the line up would mean one or two might be worthy of an article.  And the more time people have to build one the more chance they have of showing up...

Im sorry if Im being weird here but I dont see much down side other than the bragging rights of "look what I built in a year for $201X"  Guys will still procrastinate and not get started until two months till deadline and someone else will do a parking lot build so there is still plenty of drama to be had.  All I am saying is lets give folks a little more time to find creative ways to build something wild and wonderful under the budget.

When I saw My car wasn't done in time I called My Friend Joe to ask For a ride down to the Show, He put me to work on he and Jamie's car and I worked my Butt off , I had the time of my life at a race track, I am a "Racing Isn't Fun,  Winning is Fun" Kind of Guy, and Have raced something for 40 years,  this was the most Fun I have ever Had.  That Said,     'I'll Be Back'.   So come down with what you Have And Get your Groove on.

I hear ya about the extra time. And I don't disagree, but I think there are a lot of reasons that it is the way it is.

BUT! (As true in the challenge as it is in life) It is the way it is because someone stood up and did something. You can do that too.

What should the $2019 class be? Can you get people onboard? Chances are, if you build it, they will come. John has mentioned how a subclass was created in the past. You could copy that or there are probably other ways to do it too. Make it your own!

excellent point Robbie!  I propose that the 2019 challenge should be.......   aircooled!!  Im not saying beetles per se, actually not beetles at all.  just that whatever car one chooses to use as the base should have an aircooled engine.  Options are:

motorcycle engines

corvair 6 cylinders

timed out aircraft engines  (anybody got a spare r2800 lying around!?)

are electric engines air cooled?

and of course vw based... good luck getting a porsche under budget!  maybe it would be cheaper to use 2 type 1 engines...

Some of you may be thinking that I am some kind of evil genius and this has been my plan all along since I do in fact have a spare radial lying around, but i unfortunatley have not yet been able to figure out how to FMV a $40k core...

No, my thinking is actually that there are a lot of options out there and none of them are LS based. plus, wouldnt it be great for all of the bug guys to come out and show off what a guy who knows what he is doing can do in autocross with a 60hp fart wagon?  (thats what my grumpy gramps used to call VWs)

If someone brought a tatra I would be forced to buy all the beer.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/3b/d0/d9/3bd0d96156da082f1af7614950c85f4e--vw-beetles-models.jpg

im am not figuring this out and this thread desperately needs pictures....

Just the other Day I suggested we do Fiero Bodied Cars as a Sub Class, They are Cheap, Kinda Light, Handle well can get Big brakes on them and I can think of around 10 engine combos that are all but bolt in, Dude I was Shot down so fast I felt like Target Practice.  Maybe Next year. 

You do you.  

In reply to Pattyo :well as for that $40,000 core value you could always say to heck with it and show up to run the exhibition class.   

Or make the sub class the exhibition class to see what nonsense and creativity can achieve on a budget

In reply to GTXVette : you're thinking too small too exclusive.  Why not make it a no longer built class?   Pontiac AMC Oldsmobile Duisenberg  MG Hupmoble Duetz Bonnet  

hmmmm we could really have fun!!!! 

I still think a sub 1.5L class (excluding rotaries) would bring some interesting things out of the weeds. This would include a lot of aircooled options.

I think one of the cool things about the sub class is the 1 year “scramble” to prepare something. Taking that away somehow takes away some of the spirit of the sub class.  

I think you should build whatever you want and not worry about a subclass. Just come have fun. We all like a strange variety of cars and like meeting new people. 

Pat & Frenchy,  I was just Giving Pattyo an Example,  I Mean I'm Gonna Build the Fiero, Because It's what I will Have, so that Makes it a "Just Bring what you Have" deal , But I do Have a Couple C-4's, And with me Having Trouble Getting 1 Car Down 2 could be a Stretch,  I do Like a suprise though Don't you ?

build what you want to do what you want it to do.  I lusted after my datsun ever since i saw it wasting away in a field in 2012.  I knew it had a top 5 finish in it, so that became the goal.  The goal for the next car is overall victory.  After that i plan to just play and bring off the wall builds, may dabble in the sub class but only if it just happens to cross paths with a current project or something I really want.  I’m personally  hoping a sub liter or air cooled class waits about 4 years  

there is something to sitting around with everyone in person that is very organic about the sub class discussion, and if stumpy didn’t make a bar and divide the people from the pool area, it probably would have come to life there.  

Hell if that's all it is Next year I'll Help to bring the Bar to the Pool, Vice Versa could be tough . OR we could put up a Pool In the Parking lot, I mean it is Down hill from the Hotel Pool and I have a Hose, we could drain the Hot tub pretty Quick !!!!! 

I agree that choosing sub class two years out is wrong.

I suggest at some point we have a SUB-MARINE sub class.  Creation must be powered by an engine or derivative engine that powered a boat.  Possibilities would be interesting: evinrude, johnson, honda, Yamaha outboards.  Small block chevies and fords...volvos...4 cylinder chevies....big block chevies.  Cat dc9 diesels for land yachts....list goes on and on.

A few years Back I saw a thing on Yellow Bullet or something with an Evilrude in it, It was Bad Fast.