I've not been involved in any chumpy stuff but it seems like fun.I have too many projects to go and start another from scratch but wondered if my tercel would be a completely dumb idea.
Its a '95 coupe,as it sits prepped for ice race it weighs 1700lbs with 3 gallons of fuel and no cage.
It ended up with a jdm 4efe engine(1300cc) with a whopping 85 hp before I added a header,bigger paseo throttle body,intake and complete paseo harness and ecu to run it.Probably makes 90 hp now(maybe a little more but not confindent in that)
I did a quick rules scan,looks like the base performance index is 275 leaving some room for the 500 point cap before penalties.I'm not sure if the car qualifies for the -50 point bonus for the engine swap to a smaller and less hp engine.
I have aftermarket camber plates and they'd be staying and coilovers all around,I'd stay coilover up front but to save a few points could easily use oem'ish rear springs.
I'm capable of a homebrew turbo setup but not sure its worth the 100 points plus the intercooler.I do have a set of R1 bike carbs on the shelf to let this little motor breath.
Next is brakes,I'm not sure what the 2+ thing means as far as upgrading goes.I think there's a way to use corolla calipers and a certain civic rotor for a small improvement.Not sure if decent pads are available for the tercel calipers or not,I could duct to both the rotor and caliper easy enough.
Overall the car is light,dead reliable over the last 2 seasons with the current engine and should be decent on fuel for long runs.
I should probably go attend an event to see what actually goes on but figure this place is a great place for trustworthy feedback.
Look forward to hearing thoughts from other chumpers.
I've had loads of fun just crewing with Logdog's team. So much fun that I'm driving 7 hours to Watkins Glen to do it again this year. I've also learned a ton from helping out and asking questions. My impression is that if you're just starting out the biggest things to focus on are reliability, logistics, pit stops, and then driving.
My advice: find a cool team to hang out with so you can get a feel for how things work.
YES!
for brakes use 1995 corolla calipers and 1995 protege/mx3/escort rotors. finding good pads for the corolla calipers is easy.
the 4efe is a rev happy motor and with the paseo ecu you are losing a few hundred rpms.
scion xb trans is a direct fit after swapping bell housing, it will have better gearing and a much much stronger 8 bolt diff plus its easier to find LSD for it as well
echoechoecho wrote:
YES!
for brakes use 1995 corolla calipers and 1995 protege/mx3/escort rotors. finding good pads for the corolla calipers is easy.
the 4efe is a rev happy motor and with the paseo ecu you are losing a few hundred rpms.
scion xb trans is a direct fit after swapping bell housing, it will have better gearing and a much much stronger 8 bolt diff plus its easier to find LSD for it as well
I don't know why but reading this amount of tech knowledge in such a short space just makes me smile.
I know, right? My own Tercel succumbed to rust, but I still eat this stuff up. At least accumulating Internet knowledge about cars you no longer own takes up less space than buying actual parts for cars you don't own yet.
echoechoecho wrote:
YES!
for brakes use 1995 corolla calipers and 1995 protege/mx3/escort rotors. finding good pads for the corolla calipers is easy.
the 4efe is a rev happy motor and with the paseo ecu you are losing a few hundred rpms.
scion xb trans is a direct fit after swapping bell housing, it will have better gearing and a much much stronger 8 bolt diff plus its easier to find LSD for it as well
Sorry,working 12 + hr days right now but was hoping to hear your thoughts.
If I go with the bike carbs could I leave the ecu to control ignition and pretend its still injected?,I understand the rev limit will be still factory but that's not likely a bad thing for an endurance car.
It may work, I got my car running with the stock ecu and ITBs but I had a very hard time getting a good vacuum for the map sensor. since the ecu uses the map sensor to measure engine load your ignition timing is going to be off.
But the ecu wont care if the injectors are connected or not, so its definitely possible.
Any idea on front struts that might fit from something else that has at least a decent non adjustable performance option?.
I did some quick investigating and the struts from a 1990 323/1993 escort gt seem to share the same B2 strut body code and are an inch shorter.
Also a strut from the 1990 240sx is 2" shorter(perfect)with the same B2 body code(just from the Monroe website) but pics show the knuckle mount up a far ways from the bottom of the strut so it would probably contact the end of the CV in a fwd'r.
I couldn't find the bolt size/spacings for the lower mount flanges though to actually know for sure if either would fit the spindle.
If anyone can point me to that info that would be great.
With regards to the ignition,I'm using the oem Paseo fixed timing distributor....what msd box would it take to have an adjustable timing curve and built in rev limiter?.
Look for Toyota starlet(ep71/ep82/ep90) struts
here are some part #s
Koni sport
front 8641-1214SPORT
rear 8040-1216SPORT
Bilstein B6
front 34-050194
rear 24-014991
I got lucky with my car the previous owner before he blew the eninge installed tein lowering springs(which I sold) with 4th gen tercel KYB GR-2 shocks, turns out the 4th gen KYB's are about 40% stiffer than the OEM 5th gen. the only thing you have to do is use the 4th gen strut mounts.
I cut the spring perches' off the KYBs to run ebay civic sleeves and 2.5inch springs.
Ive also heard good things about stagg shocks from someone who tracks a paseo.
Once again your the guy in the know
I have coilovers all around with camber plates,I'll take the points for camber plates and coilovers up front but will return the rear to some oem spring for 0 points.
How stiff can the kyb's handle?,I run no sways on ice and will try and continue to do so(on the front,might want to see about adding a rear bar)for the asphalt.Car is light and with DOT tires I should be able to stay around a 350lb spring up front.....I think.
Any thoughts on a spark box of some kind?.Probably a good idea to do that and do away with pretty much all factory wiring/sensors/emission stuff for improved reliability/ease of tracing a problem under pressure.
You have lots of points used up already!
List of things that add points...
Engine swap is adding 50 points. Does not matter if you lost hp or stayed the same.
Header is 25 pts
Stock trans? If not, 25 pts.
Throttle body is a 50 points add.
Ecu and wiring is free.
Camber plates are 20 points for a pair.
Coilovers are 40 pts for the entire car
Intake swap is 50 points add as well.
With what you have listed, you are at 510 pts. That's a penalty lap before you start.
1700 pounds and 100 hp is 17:1 ratio. The fast cars are 13:1 or lower.
Ignition box is another 20 pts.
In reply to wvumtnbkr:
Hey now don't go being the voice of reason in this little fantasy
I know I read about a -50 break for engine swaps that reduced power,maybe an old rule book I stumbled on accidentally?.If so that sucks a bunch considering my situation isn't really a "swap",its the exact same engine minus 200cc and every component bolts from one to another.
Also the base points value for the 1995 tercel seems a little whacked at 275 points,a 1990 crx si with a larger engine,13 more ponies and without question a suspension that's light yrs ahead of the tercel yet starts with a base index of 200 points...WTF?.
I've owned and raced both and the crx is the much better car plain and simple,it does weigh approx. 200lbs more.35 lbs of that is easily removed with the sunroof so the as raced weights aren't that far different.
I just redid the points dealio and come up with this;
275
20 for aftermarket camber plates
50 for switching to carbs
25 for the header
20 for front coilovers(listed as 10 per corner not 40 for entire car)
For a total of 390 without the ignition or silly engine "swap" so that would be 460 with those giving me a little room still.
I could simply pickup up another tercel engine and "swap" it back in on an easy Saturday afternoon and leave 90 points for I dunno what yet.
I started looking at this as a way to use an existing car and have some giggles with buddies on the cheap not build the ultimate chump car.
You can always petition to have the starting value lowered.
I would. That has a higher starting value than my 2nd gen rx7!
In reply to wvumtnbkr:
Exactly what I was thinking,I did that yrs ago for autox rules and went to great lengths to provide all the specs for various cars classed below mine but with greater performance.
They changed the rules.....instead of lowering the class mine started in they bumped all the cars I'd listed up to my class.Not at all what I expected.
I'll send an email to the tech guy and see what they say before I start an official request in writing.
Yea, email phil. He is the head tech guy.
If you search the chump forum it should come up pretty quick.
I think his username is mopar63.
Emailed Phil days ago with no reply.....
