Do we have any NASA tech gurus in the house?

No, not the rocket place, the other NASA.

I'm trying to figure out who I'd want to run this year's track events with and some people "in the know" mentioned that I should look into NASA, mostly as I didn't feel that welcome at the other big four letter word, err,  club around here.

I had a look at the rulebook for HPDE and it looks like they have very specific requirements if your car has a 4+ point harness. Of course the Maxton came from the factory with a four point harness...

Just wanted to check if my reading is correct before I try to find out who the local tech chiefs are and correspond with them about this issue. I don't really want to modify/replace the harnesses and/or add padding to the roll bar for now.

Been with NASA Mid-Atlantic since 2008 in various capacities. 

Four-points are something you have to really discuss with tech inspectors. I have seen our folks approve, I think, the Schroth ASM(?) four-point. I personally would never drive a car with a four-point setup on track as I find the submarining risk too great, no matter what I hear from others. The challenge here is that even if you get one region to approve the four-point setup, you may face the same challenge if you run events with another region. If the car technically passes per the CCR, though, you should be good.

Keep in mind, if you plan to have an instructor in the car - many won't even get in a car with "approved" four-points. 

As for roll bar padding, you will need to install whatever is required per the CCR. 

In reply to Brake_L8 (Forum Supporter) :

Thanks, that was very helpful. Oddly enough, I was looking at NASA Mid-Atlantic.

I get the dangers of the four point harness, unfortunately regular seat belts are not an option as these cars only ever came with four point harnesses.

Sounds like there's a good chance that I'd have to modify the car, which I'd rather not. I'll see if I'd be able to get in touch with a tech inspector for the region to see what they have to say in general before I waste everybody's time and drag the car out for inspection only for it to fail.

Roll bar padding should not be a huge issue, I'm pretty sure I can come up with something there. Main issue is that the rollbar also holds up the soft top, so any padding has to be temporary.

BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Brake_L8 (Forum Supporter) :

Thanks, that was very helpful. Oddly enough, I was looking at NASA Mid-Atlantic.

I get the dangers of the four point harness, unfortunately regular seat belts are not an option as these cars only ever came with four point harnesses.

Sounds like there's a good chance that I'd have to modify the car, which I'd rather not. I'll see if I'd be able to get in touch with a tech inspector for the region to see what they have to say in general before I waste everybody's time and drag the car out for inspection only for it to fail.

Roll bar padding should not be a huge issue, I'm pretty sure I can come up with something there. Main issue is that the rollbar also holds up the soft top, so any padding has to be temporary.

PM me, I'm good friends with two of the tech inspectors, we all went to college together. 

Mostly just echoing what has already been said.

How hard would it be to convert to a 5 or 6 point harness? That could solve the issue of 4 point harness since you have roll over protection. Just remember the safety gear has to be equal on both sides if you plan to have an instructor. Even then some instructors can/will decide to pass on riding if they feel unsafe.

You have a unique situation in the Maxton.

I had several instructors rightly refuse to use my 4 points back before I knew better and installed some poorly in my car with no roll over protection. I was lucky, I still had my factory belts which instructors were happy to use. Definitely talk with the tech folks they will ultimately be the ones to advise you. I haven't worked tech in several years so I don't want to speak out of turn.

In reply to LopRacer :

To install 5 or 6 point harnesses correctly, I'll have to get different seats (problem #1, because the seats are Maxton specific IIRC), plus I have to find suitable attachment points on the chassis, which may require modifcations to the chassis. There aren't any obvious attachment points on the tube frame under the passenger cabin area, at least not without taking the body off and welding them in. That's problem #2, unsurprisingly enough.

I'm going to get some dollies to put the Maxton on and see how feasible it is to get a third car into the shop. After talking this over with my wife, we're both not too keen on modifying the Maxton to the extent it would have to be modified, so the future may hold another quirky, small track car that I won't have as many regrets modifying. Plus one that I could learn to weld on, which probably covers most of the old Hondas I like around here.

Thanks for the help, Jake. 

In reply to Brake_L8 (Forum Supporter) :

Thanks a lot for the offer, I'll be in touch later today. Much appreciated.

In reply to BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) :

I was afraid you might have to modify more than would be ideal to go full 5 point. It would be a shame to have to seriously change a perfectly good and correct low production car like that.

I guess it won't hurt to ask the tech guru's at Mid Atlantic if they would let the Maxton in because that is how it came from the factory.

As for your Honda idea, I whole heatedly approve of this message, being a bit of a fan boy myself.

How about a formula style belt instead, might be easier to run those sub straps with their different routing. 

David S. Wallens said:

Thanks for the help, Jake. 

This forum and this community really, really rock. Just in case someone hasn't mentioned it already this week.

Thanks to Brake_L8 for introducing me to one of the tech inspectors.

Short version - belts that are in the car are a no go for NASA HPDE. I would either have to fit belts that match a specific FIA homologation or retrofit a 5 or 6 point harness. Fitting the latter likely requires taking the body off and modifying the frame (and possibly changing the sear), which I don't want to do. Also, while the roll bar meets the letter of the rules, it's a tad iffy for track use (which I suspected).

Sounds like what I have is an interesting Auto-X car. Which also explains why the only videos of one of these in action are running an Auto-X, which the only exception being the original Motorweek videos that show the car on the track for a test drive somewhere in Colorado.

Sounds like it's time to re-arrange the shop on the weekend and see if I can get a third car into the shop if I put the Maxton and possibly the 911 on dollies. I'm pretty sure that should be possible if I stick to something relatively small.

Could give a bit of NASA advice, but you want the one I don't know anything about.

I knew, by the context of where its posted, but had to click just to see where it went!

I'll preface this by saying I am not an expert, I don't race, I only do track days, and I have never run with NASA.

When I was looking for 5-6 point harnesses for my Miata, I remember reading that some 6 point harnesses could mount to the lap belt bolts, run through the lap belt hole in the seat, then go under the leg. Basically you would have two straps coming from the same bolt with one over the leg and one under the leg. I know bolting the sub-belts under the seat is preferred, but is this a possibility to allow you to use the factory mounting points?

03Panther said:

Could give a bit of NASA advice, but you want the one I don't know anything about.

Heh. Well, that NASA, we have some contacts at. Wife used to work for them a long time ago.

I knew, by the context of where its posted, but had to click just to see where it went!

Not up?