Drivability question on the Accord

Reminder: '88 Accord fuel injected. "Rebuilt" with four new pistons/rings, new valve seals, timing belt and headgasket (obviously). About 150 miles on it so far.

First start when it is hot outside is stumbly. It feels like a carb'd engine that needs the choke to stay on longer. Sometimes I get a CEL, not often, it's EGR related.

Mat it and let the revs climb to near redline and you can get the CEL to click on with the EGR fault code. No drivability differences when this happens.

Other than these issues, the engine is perfect.

Ideas?

Is the EGR valve hot after its idled for 5 minutes?

Sounds like it needs an egr delete.

Streetwiseguy wrote: Is the EGR valve hot after its idled for 5 minutes?

Warm. Not hot. I can also just about make the car stall if I manually pull up on the valve.

Check if the coolant temperature sensor is in spec and if its wiring is in good shape.

In reply to MadScientistMatt:

It's not in good shape, but that doesn't sound right.

When I say "hot" I mean a warm day. When it's cool, it's fine, and when the engine coolant is hot it restarts fine.

Also I don't think that would explain the light coming in with high rpm.

Still lingering issues:

1: EGR. Everything runs great, and the EGR seems to test as good, but if I floor it through the upper part of the rev range, the CEL comes on for EGR. No other symptoms and it clears upon restart.

2: A/C. No foam in the sight glass, and compressor locks when commanded, as do the fans, so I assume the refrigerant is full, but the air just isn't very cold. I believe it still has R12 in it.

Wow, is it that tough?

Try 3geez.com?

For the A/C concern, you'd need to put gauges on it to really check what's going on.

The sensor on your EGR valve is bad. Pretty common issue on those cars. There's nothing special about the ACs, and you seem to have covered it. Check the levels, that's really all there is to it.

I'd start checking sensors, TPS, coolant temp, map/maf, O2 sensors (unplug it and see if it runs better), etc.

edit: Confirming you have proper fuel pressure is also a good idea.

Derick Freese wrote: The sensor on your EGR valve is bad. Pretty common issue on those cars. There's nothing special about the ACs, and you seem to have covered it. Check the levels, that's really all there is to it.

Do you have any test which I can use to prove that? I have scoured a few of the manuals listed from 3geez but can not find the test to condemn this part. Also, I can't figure out where to buy one.

Thanks!!

Run_Away wrote: Try 3geez.com? For the A/C concern, you'd need to put gauges on it to really check what's going on.

Light on tech. Will try and find some gauges.

If you run the AC, does the cold side line get cold to the touch? This is my "I'm too lazy to get out the gauges check". If the system is physically making cold, but the cabin isn't getting cold then it's something on the airflow/mixing side, if you don't physically have a cold line, then it's something on the refrigerant side and time to get out proper tools.

In reply to mazdeuce:

Nope. No cold under the hood. I think I found a source to borrow gauges from.

I guess I have to start looking for r12

You can charge it with R134 and it should work fine. There is a theoretical loss of efficiency, but you will get cold. The 911 is a (bad) R12 system with R134 in it and it works fine-ish.

Just to be clear, this only happens on cold starts on warm days, not cold starts on cold days? Or just that you haven't had any cold days?

I'm suspecting a red herring regarding weather.

Assuming it's really a cold start issue (regardless of the weather), I too would strongly suspect the egr. Not "bad", just dirty and not well seating. A little leakage, screwing up mixture.

A blanking plate will work, but so too likely will removing, cleaning and reinstalling the egr valve.

foxtrapper wrote: Just to be clear, this only happens on cold starts on warm days, not cold starts on cold days? Or just that you haven't had any cold days? I'm suspecting a red herring regarding weather. Assuming it's really a cold start issue (regardless of the weather), I too would strongly suspect the egr. Not "bad", just dirty and not well seating. A little leakage, screwing up mixture. A blanking plate will work, but so too likely will removing, cleaning and reinstalling the egr valve.

That has not reoccurred. Let's assume that there is absolutely no performance or idle issue at all.

The EGR light comes on at high RPM, high throttle angle, and there is no apparent change in engine performance or idle quality other than a slightly higher idle RPM (that Honda put in there when the EGR light is on). The light clears upon restart, even if you restart immediately (at 65 mph on the highway).

I bought an EGR gasket, and will attempt to clean out the action and check the lift sensor soon.

When I worked at a Honda dealer the techs would throw these 3 parts at it to make the code go away for the EGR...

frequency solenoid valve B 36190-PH3-005

control valve 17290-PD6-661

vacuum chamber 36134-PH7-004

YMMV

Soooooo someone already converted it to R134a.

noddaz wrote: When I worked at a Honda dealer the techs would throw these 3 parts at it to make the code go away for the EGR... frequency solenoid valve B 36190-PH3-005 control valve 17290-PD6-661 vacuum chamber 36134-PH7-004 YMMV

I appreciate the advice but those are now discontinued (and expensive!!)

Can you "fake" whatever the ECU is looking for with regard to the EGR?

My old Nissan Hardbody popped the EGR code as soon as I installed very large and free-flowing exhaust. Turned out there wasn't enough heat left in the exhaust for the "EGR is working" Thermistor to be happy, so I merely unplugged the sensor, and jabbed the appropriate 1/2W resistor in there and never saw the problem again. Driveability was not affected at all.