Enable me: Slightly better version of the track car I already have. Chevy Malibu

I have been tracking my '05 Malibu LS V6 since 2013, mainly at VIR.

During that time that biggest thing that has been holding me back is an undefeatable speed limiter that with the size tires I use stops me at 107 mph.

I have all the other bugs worked out and have overhauled the suspension last winter.

I have yet to be out to VIR since the suspension overhaul (stiffer springs, new struts/shocks) to see how it helps my lap times but there seemed to be a lot less body roll when I took it out to Tail of the Dragon in NC/TN this past spring.

Today I came across a too good to be true deal on a low mileage '06 Malibu SS.

The benefits here are that the car is tunable so the speed limiter can be removed and the 3.9L engine has over 20% more hp then the 3.5L (197hp to 240hp).

I'm debating on what to do here.

1. Should I be happy with what I have cause in the end this upgrade partnered with another suspension overhaul and better tires/wheels, oil/trans cooler, etc... will be a bit of a money pit and in the end I only expect to be about 8 seconds faster at VIR full (2:26 to 2:18 is my estimate).

2. Should I go for the Malibu SS and after getting it sorted sell the Malibu LS? 

Downside with option two is doing a lot of stuff over again. Wheel bearings, oil/trans cooler, suspension would all have to done again. There are the random things breaking through my first few track days like the Malibu LS did till it was sorted.

I would be putting more money into a car then it cost to buy.

I know I could return the Malibu LS to stock but I doubt the local Craigslisters would pay much for it. I could always sell the seat and wheels or transfer to the SS.

Would anyone on here even be interested if I did decide to sell it as it is now, set up for a track car or am I the only weirdo interested in tracking a Malibu? 

3. Swap the SS engine/wiring harness/Computer into the LS then part out/scrap the SS shell.

The thought here is that I know the LS is sorted and the SS engine will just drop in but the computer and electrical are different.

Will it cost less (time & money) to swap engines into a sorted chassis vs doing a bunch of chassis work all over again.

Here is my build page and latest lap video at VIR.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/2005-chevrolet-malibu-v6/60988/page1/

Constructive opinions?

#3 recoup what you can by selling SS shell.   

And maybe the 3500 to me, assuming non vvt and right price 

The '05 was the last year of the Malibu without vvt.

It's got 180k miles on it but no leaks and doesn't burn oil, running Mobile 1 since about 50k miles, has a A/M oil cooler.

Trans has had the fluid and filter changed every 80k miles with no power flushes and has had the A/M trans cooler.

Looks like your less then 2.5 hours from me, I will keep you in mind if that's the route I take.

No problem! Always keeping my eyes open for a spare for the miata. And a 3500 would give me a bit more over the 3400 in it now. 

Change the 05 back to stock & sell. Sell all the various stuff you bought for it. Combine that money with the money you would spend for the 06 and buy a track car. Something more suitable to tracking without having to deal with all kinds of issues no one has much experience with so you can spend more of your time progressing as a driver and more of the money on track days.

You've been using a car no one else has at the track days you go to so there's no one there who can help you with a failed part, flat tire, etc.

The 05 is now 15 years old with 180 K miles on it and things will start to fail. Maybe just little things but they might happen first session of the day and you lose the days fees and your whole day.

The 06 while a year newer with more power, is taking on unknowns and using it or swapping pieces between the two cars will become a project, how much time do you want to spend on it compared with time spent driving?

While what you've done with the 05 is cool. I guess what I'm recommending is that you seriously consider buying a more suitable track car, perhaps a commonly used one that's already sorted.

Depending on how the vehicle gets the speed signal that it uses to implement the speed limiter, you may be able to just defeat or modify that signal. Some cars you can literally just put a switch in a sensor circuit and break the circuit which breaks the speed limiter. Or you may be able to buy a 'speedo correcter' signal box and just modify the signal downward enough to get you the speed you're actually going to hit (i.e. im guessing you need a less than 10% correction factor) without causing other drivability weirdness. 

I vaguely relate to this only because I had a Dodge Intrepid that had a 105mph limiter which was horrible, but swapped in a pcm from a car with Z RATED TIRES (yes Z, it was the mid 90s) which was a fairly rare option but had no speed limiter in the pcm. Then i ran into the transmission computer forcing a 3-4 upshift at 4800 rpm. Ok, swap in an autostick (manual shift mode) TCM which moves that to 5500, still kinda E36 M3ty. Found out a Plymouth Prowler has the only TCM tune that doesn't force early 3-4 upshift. Had another TCM to try and get programmed but ended up quitting the car before ever doing it. I got it to 135 once in 4th gear (3rd gear should have redlined at 136) and burned 4th gear up and had to rebuild the trans at 120k (did it myself, got a high stall converter in the deal, but still annoying) and never tried again because 4th gear is physically tiny and weak in those transmissions and i really needed to be in 3rd to do the car's true top speed which i assumed was 145-150. Never ended up finding that.  So anyway, silly amounts of effort to drive a family car way past the stock speed limiter- CHECK. 

I might be wrong, (and this is truly a question for my education, not a diss) but I never considered a Malibu as a go-to for a track car.  Anything can be upgraded, certainly, but it seems like a greater chasm between stock and track-capable compared to something that is closer and stiffer in stock form.... and doesn't weigh 3500 lbs.

Is there a class reason for sticking with the Malibu?  My thinking here is that you have an opportunity to buy anything.  Why stick with the heavy Epsilon?

Does HPTuners not work to override the Vmax?  Or, is that a no-go for other reasons?

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

I might be wrong, (and this is truly a question for my education, not a diss) but I never considered a Malibu as a go-to for a track car. 

Is there a class reason for sticking with the Malibu?  My thinking here is that you have an opportunity to buy anything.  Why stick with the heavy Epsilon?

I feel like I should speak up here... since I'm probably one of the few around here that's been on-track with Fr3AkAzOiD, at VIR.

iirc, he's mostly focusing on HPDE time, and not doing any 'competition' driving.  Part of the challenge of wanting to drive on track, under a budget, while raising a family.

Nevertheless, I've watched him embarrass GT350's around Oak Tree, and both sets of essess.  Witnessing that was a non-trivial motivation behind trying to field a Sonata at OneLap.  It haunts me still, and I wasn't even driving a mustang that day.

VIR is not a "miata " track, especially while climbing the HPDE ladder "when you can get out there".  Yes, people do it... but my experience is they either have more disposable income, or fewer familial constraints.

I think this car, in many ways, embodies the maxim of "track what you've got".

I don't think "better suited for the track" is the lens to look at this problem through.  This is more like... what *one car* would you buy if you wanted a DD, that could fit cat seats, and do track work... all for under... $4k (?)

sleepyhead the buffalo said:

Does HPTuners not work to override the Vmax?  Or, is that a no-go for other reasons?

HPTuners does not have support for a couple years of 3.5l.  '05 is one of them.

I'm in the camp of returning the '05 to stock (or selling it as-is, depending on how you feel) and picking up the SS.

sleepyhead the buffalo said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

I might be wrong, (and this is truly a question for my education, not a diss) but I never considered a Malibu as a go-to for a track car. 

Is there a class reason for sticking with the Malibu?  My thinking here is that you have an opportunity to buy anything.  Why stick with the heavy Epsilon?

I feel like I should speak up here... since I'm probably one of the few around here that's been on-track with Fr3AkAzOiD, at VIR.

iirc, he's mostly focusing on HPDE time, and not doing any 'competition' driving.  Part of the challenge of wanting to drive on track, under a budget, while raising a family.

Nevertheless, I've watched him embarrass GT350's around Oak Tree, and both sets of essess.  Witnessing that was a non-trivial motivation behind trying to field a Sonata at OneLap.  It haunts me still, and I wasn't even driving a mustang that day.

VIR is not a "miata " track, especially while climbing the HPDE ladder "when you can get out there".  Yes, people do it... but my experience is they either have more disposable income, or fewer familial constraints.

I think this car, in many ways, embodies the maxim of "track what you've got".

I don't think "better suited for the track" is the lens to look at this problem through.  This is more like... what *one car* would you buy if you wanted a DD, that could fit cat seats, and do track work... all for under... $4k (?)

Consider me educated.  Makes sense.

Sincerely,
A racing noob.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Sorry if I came off a bit as if I'm standing on the corner on my soapbox, shouting into the wind.  I don't mean to stepping on your toes, I guess this is something I'm a bit passionate about.

sleepyhead the buffalo said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Sorry if I came off a bit as if I'm standing on the corner on my soapbox, shouting into the wind.  I don't mean to stepping on your toes, I guess this is something I'm a bit passionate about.

Not in the least, friend.  I had a question, you had an answer.  Besides, I have 10 toes.  I can spare a couple.

Ok, lots of responses/questions.

As to why a Malibu and what my intentions are...

Continue in HPDE intermediate solo, about 3 days a year. Used to be able to do 5 or 6 full weekends and had a '96 Miata during those years but not anymore.

The Miata I never got confident enough to drive at over 80% so at VIR I was always faster in the Malibu. With coilovers, gutted interior, I/H/E it was not comfortable for long rides so distant tracks were out of the question. Sold the Miata after about 4 years and actually got $1k more then I paid for it. Buy in the winter, sell in the spring.  :)

I want to do a lot of tracks farther away so something comfortable to drive distances and that can carry it's own supplies. Been going up to New Jersey Motorsports Park with my Dad about once a year. That's a haul from Raleigh, NC, something I never would have done in the Miata.

Had surgery on my left knee and it never got back to 100%. I can still drive stick around town but an automatic would be better in the long term on track. The Malibu has a push button gear select so I can drop gears before entering a corner.

The Malibu is a spare car and not a DD so it can spend time down, especially in the winter. I track it and tow my small boat with it. If I wreck it that will suck but in the end not a devastating loss.

At first I tracked it cause it was what I had and over time I got better with it and liked being an underdog. I feel confident driving this thing at 95% and know how it reacts so I don't get surprised on track. With the long wheelbase and FWD I have had this thing slide at crazy angles or drop a wheel off track and still been able to pull on out of trouble.

The Malibu LS is lighter then most think. With a full tank my '05 LS comes in at 3,180 lbs (without driver) as I have had it corner weighed. The SS is a bit heavier but a lot of that is the larger engine (about 20-30 lbs heavier) and the silly heavy 18" wheels. Changing the wheels and tires to lightweight 17s would drop 65 lbs of unsprung weight. Yes, they are that heavy.

I have contacted multiple tuning shops as well as all the tuning software makers and the '05 Malibu LS can not be tuned to remove the speed limiter. Even took a gamble on someone who said he could do it based off him working on Pontiac G6's which share the same engine. Lost out on that since it didn't work.

'06/'07 3.5L and 3.9L can be tuned as that is when GM switched to the VVT engines but kept the same body style.

After doing a bit more research it looks like the engine swap would be more work then I thought. Engine wiring harness, PCM, BCM, are all different as well as the exhaust and the steering on the LS is electric but on the SS in hydraulic. 

Sleepyhead has seen me on track and while a Malibu is not as fast as a Corvette/Mustang driven by someone with racing experience, my Malibu being driven at 95% at a HPDE intermediate solo level can make a Corvette/Mustang being driven at 75% a worthy challenge for me.

Below is the video I made from the day at VIR with Sleepyhead and all the passes I made and all the times I was passed.

Since I doubt anyone will be watching the whole 30 minutes the highlights are below.

2:46 Running down a Porsche on the climbing esses.

*5:46 After getting to where I could pass a Mini, a Mustang (Boss 302?) passes me at the Start line and I keep up with him till after turn 12 (checkered flag/end of session).

11:05 Sleepyhead car troubles  :(

*12:55 Mustang (Boss 302?) passes me just after turn 1, keep up with him through turn 12.

16:25 Running down a BMW (Spec E30?)

18:18 More Sleepyhead

*18:40 Playing with a Corvette

21:33 More Sleepyhead

26:16 Almost keeping up with a slicks and aero Corvette through the climbing esses and south bend.

If curious I run the climbing esses at 103-106 mph per the telemetry data I have.

So since the engine swap doesn't seem as strait forward as I hoped I have to decide if I will be satisfied with where I am at now as I doubt I will be able to shave more then a second off my current best time on VIR full with my current setup.

If the answer is no then can I justify spending $6-8k on on the SS, any deferred maintenance, oil/trans cooler, suspension overhaul, wheels/tires, tuning, whatever breaks the first couple shakedown track days I have, probably loose a season as track day funds would go to the build and hoping I can recoup some of it selling the '05 LS in the hopes to go 8 seconds faster.

If you got an email from the seller of the SS saying that he had just sold it would you be super bummed that you didn't get it and regret waiting? Or would it not be that big of a deal and you would continue to happily run your current car? I think whatever your answer is to that question is the answer to whether or not you should buy it. 

The SS should have stiffer springs, better shocks, and bigger sway bars, than your 05. Maybe even bigger brakes?

I have already upgraded the '05 LS to the SS rear springs, strut tower brace, front sway bar, front brakes/rotors.

Running Pontiac G6 Convertible front springs with one coil cut (1/3 inch drop)  as they are slightly stiffer then the SS front springs. 

So the question is can you buy a $6-8k car that will lap VIR 8 seconds faster?  Must be automatic, not horrible uncomfortable, etc?

Seems like I would make a list of possibilities and only go down the Malibu SS route if it is somehow the answer to those.  I would honestly be surprised it is the answer unless the criteria includes "must be a Malibu".

I'm all for tracking what you've got, but making the jump to another Malibu seems crazy to me.  Then again, it's apparently far more effective than GRM's attempt to make a Camry work on track :)

ProDarwin said:

So the question is can you buy a $6-8k car that will lap VIR 8 seconds faster?  Must be automatic, not horrible uncomfortable, etc?

Seems like I would make a list of possibilities and only go down the Malibu SS route if it is somehow the answer to those.  I would honestly be surprised it is the answer unless the criteria includes "must be a Malibu".

I'm all for tracking what you've got, but making the jump to another Malibu seems crazy to me.  Then again, it's apparently far more effective than GRM's attempt to make a Camry work on track :)

the baffled oil pan is kind of needed on the v6 camry/avalon/etc

I would vote no. Drive what you brought until it dies. Dont sink money into old Malibu's, just keep progressing and pushing it to the limits.

Raising limits with one's wallet is not nearly as much fun as raising them with one's feet. Hardest part of being a car guy is keeping the spending down by not getting bored with their current ride. 

Although this is coming from a guy with 2 track cars MUCH MUCH MUCH more capable than I am as a driver so take the above with a grain of salt.

Another question is if you go with the SS now will that lock you into that car long term? Maybe that $6-8k you have now will turn into $8-10k in another year or two if you keep going with the current sorted LS for now. That's also another couple of years of depreciation on some better options that might tick your boxes as well.

I love what you are doing with the car, too many people think they can't get on track/autocross unless they have a sports car or track car and sit on the sidelines instead. The fact that the car also serves a purpose pulling your boat as well is icing on the cake.

MrChaos said:

the baffled oil pan is kind of needed on the v6 camry/avalon/etc

I did have baffling added to my oil pan once I went to sub 400tw summer tires.

I should be getting a call back and more info/photos on the SS later on today. 

After a couple days thinking I am realising I want the car and I am being more concerned about what others will think about it.

I could pay off the mortgage a year earlier or have a bit more speed at the track. What do I want more? Keep fighting myself there.

I would still be left explaining why I have 8 vehicles at home. This would be a 6th personal car, then there is my boat, and my company car. Though I expect to sell one car and the boat within 3 years.

I say go for it. Vanilla family cars turned into race cars is a very underappreciated niche of automobile enthusiasm. Anyone can track a Miata, I say dare to be different 

Maybe you can swap all the good stuff from the LS to the SS, put the SS stuff on the LS to make it a bit more tame, and sell the LS to someone who needs a family car but likes cool wheels.

I don't suppose this is a Malibu Maxx, huh? The roofline on those is hilarious, I would love to see one of those on a track.

Oh man, I’d be paying off that mortgage if that’s an option!

Btw, aren’t there some problems with the Malibu SS? I remember someone on here asking about the wagon version and I was scared off by the responses here, maybe something about the trans, can’t remember. You might want to look into that if you haven’t.