Keith Tanner said:Toyman! said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
Why would an American have a European viewpoint?
If the American is trying to understand something a European company has done in Europe with a European product, it might help.
...it's unclear how the results relate to the real world...
An irrelevant test is irrelevant. Having a European viewpoint doesn't make it more relevant.
In reply to Toyman! :
It's as relevant as a top speed test, or any other such marketing experiment. None of them directly correlate to daily experience, but they are interesting nonetheless.
dyintorace said:STM317 said:The VW drove 440 miles with an 86kwh battery. That's 5.11 miles per kwh. It will be interesting to see what it's official range rating might be.
The Escalade IQ is EPA rated at 460 miles with a 204kwh battery. That's 2.25 miles per kwh.
The Lucid Gravity 7 passenger CUV is EPA rated at 450 miles with a 118kwh battery. That's 3.81 miles per kwh.
5.11 miles/kwh is impressive. Our 2023 Ioniq 6 is typically between 3.5 and 4.0 miles/kwh, depending on the mix of driving.
seconded on this, anything over 4 miles per kwh is really impressive.
The Lucid Air is 4-5 miles per Kwh depending on spec, in highway driving up to 70mph.
In reply to dculberson :
Maybe to some people. Top speed is just as useless as range at some obscure speed. I guess it gives a person something to brag about but it not only doesn't provide the consumer with real information, it provides the company's engineering team with no real useful information for product improvement.
I did a factory tour at an automatic door manufacturer who bragged their doors were tested to 5 million cycles. They were doing the test in a nice clean air conditioned room. The engineer got offended when I told him it was a useless test and that the same door in real-world conditions never made 100k cycles before needing wear parts replaced. I told him his bottom guide design was terrible and said if his tests were realistic he would know how sand and debris clogged and wore his guide pin and washer. I suggested that he take the test door and put it in his employee parking lot and have his employees use it. At least then his testing would provide realistic results that could be used to improve his product instead of some useless bit of information they could post on their brag sheet.
In reply to Toyman! :
Just like you engineers love me and my insights lol :)
Toyman! said:In reply to dculberson :
Maybe to some people. Top speed is just as useless as range at some obscure speed.
and yet top speed tests are often performed and bragged about. It doesn't make sense to dismiss this if you don't rail against top speed tests, lap time tests, etc. They're all performance marketing.
In reply to dculberson :
It's as relevant as a top speed test, or any other such marketing experiment. None of them directly correlate to daily experience, but they are interesting nonetheless.
I disagree. Few people are ever going to see the top speed of their cars, it's more of a bragging point/ comparison the the capabilities of other cars. But range of an EV is a huge factor among EV buyers, and likely to actually be used throughout ownership. To be fair, VW was mostly transparent, and anyone who read the article should have questioned the relevance of an efficiency test that averaged 18mph. But it fooled a car magazine into posting it with the claim in the thread title, so I assume it would fool the average EV buyer. If Mazda put out a press release saying the newest Miata does 150mph, when going downhill while drafting, I doubt GRM would post "Miatas keep getting faster, 2025 model can do 150mph."
In reply to dculberson :
Lap time tests at a known track aren't the same as a top speed test. How fast a performance car will make it around a track is good information. See GRM's Firm tests. It provides real-world information about the capabilities of the vehicle.
How fast will the car go if you never lift is a waste of bandwidth. When does a person ever do that? I'll happily admit I never have in any car I've ever owned. A quick Google search says the G35 was capable of 157 mpg. The fastest speed I ever saw was 108 at CMP coming into turn 8 so why would I care that it could go 50 mph faster? Top speed is a pissing contest for engineers and braggarts.
In reply to spacecadet (Forum Supporter) :
For anything that can be aerodesigned (new word?), as in not made to have an openbed or go offroad, I think 250Wh/Mi should be the standard. Without trying, I've averaged far better than that in my 2023 Model 3 RWD. I agree it makes no sense to brag about range when you are just having it hold a lot more fuel.
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