81cpcamaro wrote:Javelin wrote: In reply to 81cpcamaro: Are you sure that was nation-wide and not just Cali or something? I owned a 100% stock 79 Z28 and it didn't have cats...Yep I'm sure, the passengers side floor got that awful hump in 1975 for the cat. Here is more info: http://www.nastyz28.com/2gcog/exhaust.html http://www.nastyz28.com/camaro/camaro75.php
LOL! Guess it wasn't "stock" then 
pres589 wrote: I like how the guy asks for cheap to free upgrades and everyone tells him to replace the engine. I'd make sure the throttle linkage is adjusted correctly so the butterflies open completely, make sure the choke is functioning properly, get a good set of replacement plug wires and plugs on it, and then make sure the suspension & steering & brakes are in good condition. If you want to spend a bit of money I'd go after the exhaust side first; find a shop in your area that can actually do real work and bend tube on site, etc etc and do headers, replacement cats that are modern and not restrictive like they once were, and run true dual exhaust. Maybe with an X or H pipe in there if you can find the coin.
Exactly. I will never understand the disdain for the 305. The 307 Oldsmobile? That I can understand. The 305 is still a small block Chevy and any cheap parts you throw at it will, as Clem said, work on a 350. I would work on finding some cheap but better-flowing heads. That, with a better intake, exhaust and a properly tuned Q-Jet will really wake up a 305.
when driving, place right foot directly on floor. It works best whit the gas pedal between your foot and the floor.
I had one of these, back when it was about 2 or 3 years old. Mine, however, was a 6 with automatic....painted that red called "Firethorn" by GM. I was looking at X-bodies, as I didn't care for the domestic competition (hadn't bought my first new import, yet) and had a Pontiac with an Olds engine and a Buick with a Buick V6 as the only decent choices in my area of northern Pa.
These are decent cars, but driving into any kind of large city on a regular basis made me decide to "downsize" at the first opportunitiy (traded for a 1980 Fiesta). The drive nicely and while the interior design is okay, I admired it for it's "quasi BMW 6 series" styling.
These are about as cookie cutter as a car can get, with cars like Mustangs and Camaros being about the same at least for engine and some chassis mods.
Hoop wrote:pres589 wrote: I like how the guy asks for cheap to free upgrades and everyone tells him to replace the engine. I'd make sure the throttle linkage is adjusted correctly so the butterflies open completely, make sure the choke is functioning properly, get a good set of replacement plug wires and plugs on it, and then make sure the suspension & steering & brakes are in good condition. If you want to spend a bit of money I'd go after the exhaust side first; find a shop in your area that can actually do real work and bend tube on site, etc etc and do headers, replacement cats that are modern and not restrictive like they once were, and run true dual exhaust. Maybe with an X or H pipe in there if you can find the coin.Exactly. I will never understand the disdain for the 305. The 307 Oldsmobile? That I can understand. The 305 is still a small block Chevy and any cheap parts you throw at it will, as Clem said, work on a 350. I would work on finding some cheap but better-flowing heads. That, with a better intake, exhaust and a properly tuned Q-Jet will really wake up a 305.
The biggest problem with throwing on a good pair of heads ($500-1000), intake ($200) and carb ($3-400) is for that money, you'd find a nice rebuilt 350 that makes more power than the 305 would ever dream of.
Now.... I'm not saying that the 305 is worthless. It's a fine engine as long as you don't expect too much from it. But that small bore really makes it hard to get good heads to breathe on it. If you're wantin to stick with the 305, I'd build a good sounding eco-car. Slap in a 200-4R, small cam, head work, tr-y headers feeding into a nice single exhaust and fab up a nice dual snorkel air cleaner feeding in cold air from the grille and tune it for economy. That car could easily see high 20's on the highway set up correctly.... it just won't ever be fast.
There seems to be this weird idea that parts for a 305 will cost more than they would for a 350. A lot of 350's out there came with heads that stink compared to modern castings. Vortecs on a 305 will make power just like they will on a 350, just slightly less. So this whole "if you spend $XXX on heads for the 305 for the same amount you could get a WHOLE 350 MAKING A TON MORE POWER YEAH" stuff seems pretty weird.
The intakes are the same. The carbs are the same (although a 305 is obviously going to want a slightly smaller carb than a similarly built 350), The headers are the same. 45 cubic inches is a difference, but come on folks, keep it logical. If the guy asking this question wants to crawl around looking for deals, that's what I'd do, go find a set of Vortec heads and a matching aftermarket intake like an Edelbrock or similar Vortec-specific carb intake.
(this is probably where I get told I am spreading nonsense again like that horrible Beemer thread)
There is no replacement for displacement.
BTW I have a couple of 350s and LT1s sitting around, also have a couple of 4 speed autos.
Do whatever he did.
pres589 wrote: There seems to be this weird idea that parts for a 305 will cost more than they would for a 350. A lot of 350's out there came with heads that stink compared to modern castings. Vortecs on a 305 will make power just like they will on a 350, just slightly less. So this whole "if you spend $XXX on heads for the 305 for the same amount you could get a WHOLE 350 MAKING A TON MORE POWER YEAH" stuff seems pretty weird. The intakes are the same. The carbs are the same (although a 305 is obviously going to want a slightly smaller carb than a similarly built 350), The headers are the same. 45 cubic inches is a difference, but come on folks, keep it logical. If the guy asking this question wants to crawl around looking for deals, that's what I'd do, go find a set of Vortec heads and a matching aftermarket intake like an Edelbrock or similar Vortec-specific carb intake. (this is probably where I get told I am spreading nonsense again like that horrible Beemer thread)
Thank you. I agree completely.
Bob, as I said earlier in the thread, if you compare the bore in a 305 to the bore in a 455, mathematically, they come out to about the same in relation to their cubic inches.
Edit: Also, I hope that I am not coming off as too defensive. I just happen to be in the situation of planning a build for a 305 in the Parisienne wagon I have acquired.
In reply to Hoop:
Well, and the article you linked to had what sounded like a not remotely crazy 305 making about 375 sorta-net HP on a dyno (not sure what accessories they ran, I assume an electric water pump and no alternator, but something slightly streetable in the exhaust department). It was a nice modern cam from Comp and aftermarket iron copies of the Vortec head that were in the $225 range bare five years ago.
GET A 350 AND MAKE ABOUT THE SAME POWER RIGHT NOW
pres589 wrote: In reply to Hoop: Well, and the article you linked to had what sounded like a not remotely crazy 305 making about 375 sorta-net HP on a dyno (not sure what accessories they ran, I assume an electric water pump and no alternator, but something slightly streetable in the exhaust department). It was a nice modern cam from Comp and aftermarket iron copies of the Vortec head that were in the $225 range bare five years ago. GET A 350 AND MAKE ABOUT THE SAME POWER RIGHT NOW
STOP SPREADING NONSENSE
5.3 out of modern truck and slap a small snail on it.
Get EFI, Much better mileage and even more power. berkeley the muscle car purists
This thread had some good info on cheap SBC performance.
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/building-a-cheap-sbchelp-me-plan/25893/page1/
Grtechguy wrote: 5.3 out of modern truck and slap a small snail on it. Get EFI, Much better mileage and even more power. berkeley the muscle car purists
If cost were no object, I would agree with you; the 5.3 is a fine motor.
The first choice is probably whether or not you want to swap engines or warm up what you have. Either way you can make more power.
The cheapest way to go would be used Vortec heads. You'll need to also obtain a Vortec intake (Summit racing), self aligning rocker arms (new or used) and centerbolt valve covers (new or used). A full size GM truck in a junkyard, ebay, or swap meet finds. Add a Summit Cam and headers/dual exhaust bolt on kit. The camaro/nova exhaust you can find everywhere (Summit, Jegs, JC Whitney). Qjet carb or other 4bbl.
World Products makes a specific 305 performance head. A little more costly, but then you do not need the other Vortec conversion stuff. A used aluminium small block intake is cheap (or new).
Otherwise, another option is a GM Crate motor - basic http://www.jegs.com/i/GM-Performance/809/10067353/10002/-1?parentProductId=
swap out the cam, apply intake carb ignition exhaust headers
I like the idea of the warmed over 305, hidden nos, steel wheels, hub caps, cheap soft low rated Pep Boys or Walmart white walls. Then tell everyone "it's a 267 V8" oddball motor. Paint the aluminum intake after grinding off the company labels, add a 4-2 bbl adapter pate run a full race built 2 Jet carb with a manual choke on the 4bbl intake. Swap in a Powertrax conversion in the rear for traction. Go black distributor cap and black spark plug wires but off a good quality brand. You can always rub off the printed name on the plug wires (MSD, etc) with a rag and thinner.
If you are going to buy an intake manifold, do exhaust work, and upgrade carb and ignition anyway, a carbed truck 5.3 is the only way to go.
Same $300 for and intake, $300 for the MSD box, $4-600 for the motor and everything else is exactly the same costs. Try getting aluminum heads and roller cam in anything for $7-900.
Also, if you keep the EFI and computer that go with the 5.3L, then you can run a 4L60E, which around here is cheaper than a 700R4. Pick up a truck package, engine and trans, swap on the carb stuff and run it with your stock trans, then when you spring to EFI later you can swap in the truck auto and sell the carb stuff. Manageable steps and not much down time.
Quick upgrades that are nearly free: get that Rochester 2bbl freed up. If the choke flap is sticking, chances are the fast idle cam is partially engaged and that makes it idle awful high. It should have the 'divorced' choke, where the bi metallic spring is in the intake and there's a rod going up to the flap.
Once that's done, make sure the plugs are clean and properly gapped. On ignition: that one should have the HEI electronic ignition which is actually not bad. It has a crappy ignition curve, though, mostly for emissions reasons. Mr Gasket sells an advance recurve kit wihich is some different weights and springs, that will make a big difference in off the bottom torque and help the gas mileage to boot. Caution: if the car has to pass emissions testing you may want to find a local SBC nut and ask if the curve kit will still pass.
If it's emissions allowable in your area, twice pipes and turbo mufflers will help and sound nice. 
Headers are a good idea, you might want to consult wheels777 on this board for his ideas on brands etc. He's the resident SBC cheap performance whiz, BTW.
It is possible that the timing chain and gears could be original. Here's the problem: the cam gear teeth were plastic for noise reduction. If it hasn't been replaced, it is very possible on a really cold morning for the teeth to be so brittle that trying to start it will rip every tooth off the cam gear and that bends valves. So it might be advantageous to take a Saturday afternoon and swap the timing chain and gears. Just remember the balancer is a tight fit, you'll need a puller and installer which are dirt cheap.
As far as the motor itself, the 305 is not a powerhouse. Sorry, guys. 'There's no replacement for displacement'. Chevys are dirt cheap to build. For instance a 383 SB is easy to build, it's a 400 crank in a 350 block. So if your long term plans are to keep it and 'rod it, you can drive it on the 305 while you scratch together the parts for a powerhouse, then when the time comes it's basically a Saturday afternoon project to swap it out with the 305. I do have to agree with using a 700R4, that's basically a TH350 with overdrive and the O/D is good for gas mileage. (Yes, yes, I know I'm oversimplifying the transmission lineage. )
The 305 is great because it's disposable. You can boost the hell out of it or strap on a 200 shot and not really care if it lives a short life because another junkyard 305 is $200.
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/305-v8-performance/15039/page3/
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/hopping-up-a-283-for-cheap/44521/page1/
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/305-vs-350/19049/page2/
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/pontiac-305-engine-thoughts/6400/page1/
Old topic. Same comments. Its a SBC, it will make power cheap
All the cheap CL and E-bay listings are under "Camero" for cheap Camaro parts.
Thanks everyone!
Sorry I haven't been more active online, we don't have real reliable access to the internet. I've learned a bit more about the car.
It was bought from the original owner's widow, he used it for a daily driver and the interior is pretty rough. There's not really any major rust. I'm going to take some pictures of the ugly thing. ;) I've seen some ones done up nicely since, though.
As a Mustang guy, I never paid any attention to these cars, but it's a decent little car. The 305 runs strong, I do believe only has 53k miles on the car. Need to fix the dash lighting and speedo issues. Not sure if someone mentioned a fix here, I browsed through quick but just wanted to reply since it's my thread. ;)
My daughter LOVES the car, so first order of business is at least primer. I'm thinking as a combat vet, flat black and flat green, Hot Rod Project F-bomb style, but literally super cheap. Also, was overjoyed to see Car Craft editor Freiburger (?) owned one forever, they ran it as the Disco Nova, which rang bells for me, my favorite car mag next to Grassroots.
Anyone know a cheap and good bolt-in front and back seat replacement? The rear bench is OK enough for my daughter, front is bad, I want to get a cheap and comfy replacement, that looks better.
We're also pretty much just pulling out the interior trim faded tan pieces and finding an appropriate and cheap flat black to paint them and put back in. Nothing fancy, it's my 5yo daughter's 'big car puzzle' she's doing with me, LOL.
Talking about upgrades - anything that increases the reliability, longevity, fuel mileage of this 305. This really is unfortunately my family daily driver right now, haha. Runs like an absolute charm though. Interested in all safety/longevity/family-oriented upgrades that I could source from junkyards or cheap online.
Thanks!
Also, the absolute cheapest wheel or at least matching HUBCAPS that'll fit the thing. LOL. Uniform steelies done flat black to match the rest of the car if I go that Fbomb route on the cheap would fit and look tough. I just don't know what fits the thing from a JY.
For the interior, grab some DupliColor Vinyl & Fabric dye (for the vinyl & fabric) and some DupliColor Plastic Fusion (for the plastic). About $3 a can each, and they make black. In fact, I have 3 cans of each here if you ever find your way up north. I have bright red, too
On the wheels, scout your craigslist for 5x4.75 wheels. Try to find a matching set with tires. The 3rd Gen Z28 wheels actually look really good on the Nova, as do the Trans Am mesh wheels, etc. Look every day, you will find a LOT of options. Just buy whatever you like. Should be able to get a good set for $200, easy.
The OD Green ala F-Bomb sounds killer! Try chalkboard paint, it's flat green, cheap, and can be brushed on. Then your daughter can draw stuff on it.
Hoop wrote: Exactly. I will never understand the disdain for the 305. The 307 Oldsmobile? That I can understand. The 305 is still a small block Chevy and any cheap parts you throw at it will, as Clem said, work on a 350. I would work on finding some cheap but better-flowing heads. That, with a better intake, exhaust and a properly tuned Q-Jet will really wake up a 305.
Here is the big problem about the 305. Tiny bores limit valve size which limits flow. If you don't try to make them perform over 5500 rpm, you're fine. They are a fine engine as long as you don't try to make them rev or make much more HP.
BUT. The first modification you make to try to get that wheezer 305 over 200 hp, you've already spent more than you would by just dropping in a 275 hp 350. THAT'S why the disdain for the 305. I just sold a complete, running vortec-headed, roller cam 350 with carbed intake and holley carb for $350 and it made around 300 hp. It would take thousands to get that 305 even close.
There is nothing wrong with a 305. It has 87% the displacement, but not 87% of the performance potential. Its not that the 305 isn't a good engine, its just that if you're looking for performance its a terrible choice. You'll spend twice the money getting to your HP goals, have less torque in the end, and nobody wants to buy a hopped-up 305 if you ever want to sell it.
THAT'S why everyone says "put a 350 in it." Its cheaper and faster.
Car has the GM standard 5 x 4.75" wheel bolt pattern. Junkyard hunting, anything from a 70's-'80's mid-size GM would work. If getting wheels look for nothing smaller than 15". The selection of 14" tires for something the size of the Nova is getting slim. 215/70-14 or 225/70-14 would be about it. A little better for 15's.
Some of the 3rd gen F-bodies use different backspacing on the wheels, but I think the base model wheels are all the same.
S10/S15 wheels bolt up too.
Some of the full size cars used the 4.75" bolt pattern, but somewhere along the way they went to a 5" pattern. Make a cardboard pattern off your existing wheel and take it junkyarding with you.
I think the bench seats from the '80's mid-size cars will bolt in to your Nova. You might need to swap the Nova seat tracks over. Otherwise it isn't too hard to swap in some junkyard buckets. Just reinforce the floor where you drill for holes.
For the engine, since the 305 is running good, just keep changing the oil at regular intervals. If you want a cheap upgrade swap on a 4bbl intake and carb. I'd look for a used Edelbrock Performer or Holley low-ride dual plane intake. A good Quadrajet will get good MPG, but if you haven't played with carbs it might be a bit of a headache as an intro to carburetors. A Holley 600 vacuum secondary with electric choke is the most universal 4bbl out there with scores of good used ones around. My preference is Carter/Edelbrock 600 with electric choke. Bunches of used ones of those around too.
If the trans is a Metric 200 keep an eye on the fluid. Also keep an eye out for a good used TH350. Plenty of good ones out there used too and much more reliable.
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