Ranger50 said:06HHR (Forum Supporter) said:Mercedes battling a fundamental issue with the W15
Isn't this a version of the same problem they were having with the last car?
Uhhhhh ummmm... I don't follow F1 religiously but ain't high speed, mega downforce, and corners their namesake?
It's all relative.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:Streetwiseguy said:Just off the top of my head, Lando probably lost a spot and Lewis gained one, based off getting tires when everyone else did.
Norris was 6th before the SC, 8th at the finish. Hamilton was 8th and 9th, so they both lost out. Russell gained one position as a result, Bearman gained 2.
I was surprised at how not-fast the Mercedes and McLaren both were at the end. Maybe it's just that they were battling and slowing each other down, but Norris was 6.4 seconds behind Bearman after his stop and 2.3 at the end of the race. I expected fresh softs vs well-used hards to be worth more than 4 seconds over a 12 lap stint.
The chase might have been better if Lewis were ahead. The McLaren had no top end speed today. Oscar had drs on George for 40 laps or so...
alfadriver said:I guess it's a choice, but either way, he was in the wrong. Otherwise, as I contend, the lines in the box they line up against are irrelevant.
Every specification has a tolerance. I don't know how big the tolerance is for starting position, but I expect it's got to be at least six inches (or whatever that is in cm). Remember that the driver can't see those lines when he's in the car, only when he's approaching them. So maybe in this race Norris lucked out by having ended up at the back side of the box after the formation lap thus giving him a little bit of extra space to recover into?
Regardless, stationary, inside the defined starting box, when the lights go out is all that you need to ensure a fair start. There's no advantage to be gained by moving a few inches inside the box a few seconds before the lights go out, so there's no reason to penalize it.
Keith Tanner said:Ranger50 said:06HHR (Forum Supporter) said:Mercedes battling a fundamental issue with the W15
Isn't this a version of the same problem they were having with the last car?
Uhhhhh ummmm... I don't follow F1 religiously but ain't high speed, mega downforce, and corners their namesake?
It's all relative.
And it changes from year to year as the different teams improve different things on their own cars.
Props to Bearman for the great drive, but we all know the true DOTD was K-Mag. I was texting my buddy with 10 to go that Max would lap up to Kevin so he would hold on to 11th. Missed it by one spot. Now there are butt-hurt F1 Journos that want the rules changed so we cannot witness the brilliance of that kind of sacrificial drive again.
Race up front was a snoozefest. How long did we see the leader?
Cautiously optimistic about the Haas. Looks like it is decent on its tires and pretty awesome on the brakes.
maschinenbau said:I hope this race puts all the RIC replacing PER nonsense to rest.
Nobody will replace PER if he keeps doing what he's been doing the first two races. This has been textbook on what what RedBull wants from him.
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
He moved before the start. Doesn't matter if he gained an advantage or not. If the line doesn't matter for them to line up against, why is it there?
Previous seasons has had similar things happen, and at least the movement between lights on and off was penalized regardless of advantage. This is the same as a runner twitching before a 100m race, and it's always penalized.
Again, the lack of penalty opens up a can of worms that all of the drivers can do. Starting off with lining up past the line but in the box.
In reply to alfadriver :
the FIA clarified in their statement that they go by the transponder, and his transponder didn't indicate that he jumped.
In reply to gixxeropa :
I know that. But they also use cameras to determine fault in crashes. And multiple camera shots showed him move. Why use a tool that can't show that kind of change in position? Had he originally lined up in the second position, that has been penalized in the past. And all of those had to be visual.
The whole thing makes no sense and sets some precedence for all sorts of shenanigans.
Very impressive start for Bearman however the battle of Carlos and Charles is what most interests me. I think everyone likes Daniel but I think he might be best in The Aussie V8's, WEC, Nascar or Indycar. Liam, Drugovich and the many others, it's a shame they have to watch from the sidelines.
In reply to trigun7469 :
Ricciardo, Magnussen, Bottas and others need to make way for new drivers. I would say Stroll, but daddy's money is too strong for him to ever lose his seat.
In reply to gixxeropa :
I would add Yuki, Zhou and the french connection to that list too.
alfadriver said:In reply to gixxeropa :
I know that. But they also use cameras to determine fault in crashes. And multiple camera shots showed him move. Why use a tool that can't show that kind of change in position? Had he originally lined up in the second position, that has been penalized in the past. And all of those had to be visual.
The whole thing makes no sense and sets some precedence for all sorts of shenanigans.
He moved, then stopped. The yellow line is a guide for the drivers, not the start box.
Either they considered his stop to be sufficient punishment, or he didn't leave the box, or a combination of the above.
I'm more weirded out by Magnussen gettin 20 seconds worth of penalties for very little misbehavior.
gixxeropa said:In reply to trigun7469 :
Ricciardo, Magnussen, Bottas and others need to make way for new drivers. I would say Stroll, but daddy's money is too strong for him to ever lose his seat.
I agree that Ricciardo needs to move on to WEC or something else where he can share a car with someone who's good at setup. He's a really charismatic guy but he just can't seem to deliver when he's the principal.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Bottas retire. Trundling around the back of the field after coming in 2nd in the WDC a few times has got to hurt. He seems to have a pretty good life outside the racetrack.
Streetwiseguy said:He moved, then stopped. The yellow line is a guide for the drivers, not the start box.
Either they considered his stop to be sufficient punishment, or he didn't leave the box, or a combination of the above.
I'm more weirded out by Magnussen gettin 20 seconds worth of penalties for very little misbehavior.
So every driver can do the same thing, then. Or at least line up ahead of the line that apparently means nothing. Now the drivers know to line the car up ahead of the meaningless guide line. Or at least they all know it's in the wrong spot if they want to line up at the absolute front of the box.
Again, others have jumped and not gotten an advantage at all and STILL got a penalty. The FIA telling us that he didn't move because of the transponder is clearly BS- since multiple cameras show him moving. Are they seriously using the transponder to see if they don't move? And that's the only sensor?
I know people think I'm being overly sensitive about it- but this is a very old rule that has been really harsh in the past, so are they changing the rule all of a sudden? Jumping the start is jumping the start, even if you stop, spin the tires, trip all over yourself- irrelevant. Not moving is not moving- it's not crawling forward a few inches and then stopping again.
My view of the Norris deal is that he was still inside the box (what's in the box?) and thus not "incorrect grid position". When he "jumped", he stopped, then went on green. Looked more like he was hurt by jumping-stopping-going.
Snooze fest up front but did really enjoy seeing the fresh blood of Baerman.
At the risk of involving politics, it would seem some form of term limits might be the only way to freshen the field. There has to be so much talent waiting in the wings for a chance at the big show. On the other hand some drivers are capable of delivering great performance well past their sell by date. As a HUGE Danny Ric fan, I unfortunately agree it's time to go.
I really hope the rumors of Vettel's possible return aren't true, would love to see him (and many others) in team management roles. That used to be a very common thing that seems to have gone out of fashion.
Why should Danny Ric retire?
To make way for younger drivers.
I am amused by this sentiment. Should I retire early so younger staff members can have my job? Of course not.
If the team is happy with his performance then he should stay as long as he likes.
Mario Andretti stayed in Indy cars for a long time
Would any of us give up driving in F1 willingly?
jmabarone said:My view of the Norris deal is that he was still inside the box (what's in the box?) and thus not "incorrect grid position". When he "jumped", he stopped, then went on green. Looked more like he was hurt by jumping-stopping-going.
So then line up a little farther back, jump the start just stay in the box, right?
What's the point of having a spot to start if you can move and it be ok?
But I go back to the FIA "justification"- admitting that their "technology" isn't actually capable of detecting a jumped start, since it didn't detect the movement.
And yet......Alonso.....
I also like to see the new boys come into the sport, which is why I would like to see team expansion to 12 or even more teams. I'm not looking to see NASCAR like 43 car fields, but a few more teams would help freshen the grid and really mess with current pit strategies, not to mention maybe bring some fire in the belly new team leaders into it too (ahem...... bring back Gunter!)
I don't understand what happened to DannyRickyBobby, he was a late braking, hard charging fool in the early parts of his career.
The Bear Man said he could barely move his head by the end of the race - he blamed some of it on the seat, but the rest was just down to holy F1 cars, man!
In reply to alfadriver :
It looks more like he lined up at the rear threshold of the start box, "jumped" the start, but only moved forward within the allowable line up window with out ever being outside the zone. If their starting position has a say 6 inch window must not have been outside that at any point. Since he came to a stop within the box and was not outside or moving when the lights went out, it was good. Unless there is a rule that you must remain stationary for XXX seconds prior to start, he should be fine.
I think the problem with Danny is that he can't develop a car. The "early career" everyone remembers is the Red Bull days, in a car set up by Vettel and Max. Once he became a primary driver, his results collapsed.
I'd love to see more teams. We used to have 24 cars on the grid, and going further back we had more cars than that trying to qualify for 24 grid spots. But that's not the package that Liberty Media or the existing teams want.
It's a tough thing for an outsider to say who should stay and who should be shown the door. The teams have the data. Is the current driver faster than the reserve driver? Is he faster than any of the guys that may have been brought in to test? And maybe most importantly, does he still bring more money with him than the other possible drivers?
Tom1200 said:Why should Danny Ric retire?
To make way for younger drivers.
I am amused by this sentiment. Should I retire early so younger staff members can have my job? Of course not.
If the team is happy with his performance then he should stay as long as he likes.
Mario Andretti stayed in Indy cars for a long time
Would any of us give up driving in F1 willingly?
I understand your thought process but there is not equivalency to the jobs mere mortals like you and I have. As we progress through out careers we bring on new knowledge that regularly means a transition in role. Do you do the same thing now that you did at 25? I certainly don't! Same industry, same areas but in my 20's I was doing intense detailed engineering, now I use my experience to guide a group or influence an organization. The role of an F1 driver is more compartmentalized, main value is going fast, sure experience helps in race craft, probably helps on the sponsor commitment end too but in the end it's drive fast job 1. Fernando still has that in spades, many others drop off. Danny has dropped off.
If I was in a very public position like F1 driver the main reason to give that up willingly may be so it wasn't taken away embarrassingly. Danny has a lot of driving options that would probably be very fun and rewarding, if he doesn't tarnish it by staying past his use by date.
In reply to NY Nick :
He was two spots back from his teamate.........who he finished ahead of last race.
People act like he completely off the pace relative to the car. Yeah he had a bad weekend but you can't dump drivers the instant things go south.
Note my comparison is an equivalency; if his employer his fine with his performance then he'll stay, if not then not. Same as everyone else. Some employees lose there edge but still get the job done and some remain static throughout their careers. How you deal with that is all part of running an organization
You'll need to log in to post.
