Fun and economical...

mndsm wrote: MX6 GT. I've seen mid 30's out of mine as long as i'm off the loud pedal. Can be had for peanuts.

This.

Can also satisfy the go-fast urges (at least within reason) while doing so. It's beyond incredible what they can do on stock motor.

I paid over twice as much as mndsm did for his at $900, and after fixing a boost leak, it ran a 13.2 @ 118mph at the strip. (Then promptly got kicked off. Obviously, not stock, but still stock original motor!)

For those suggesting the MX6, are you referring to the first gen only or are the second gen cars ok? The reason for asking is that there's a second gen not too far from my house for sale and I might go look at it this afternoon when I get off of work. Are parts plentiful?

Also not far from the house is a 2005 Chevy Aveo LS hatch. It's pretty new and should get decent fuel economy, but it might be mind numbingly boring to drive. Experiences?

Good places to look for VWs? Autotrader is a pretty limited source and Craigslist is essentially a roll of the dice each day.

Please expand on Foci as well. I kind of get the impression that one should stay away from the first gen cars. Modability?

I really appreciate all of the help so far!

familytruckster wrote: Accent? I had a 2001. Burned oil and leaked like a chevy, The ECM/MAF was messed up and always ran lean, I did replace the MAF. It melted the pistons. It threw the alt belt, when I went to replace it, one of the bolts broke of in the block. The final nail in the coffin was the PLASTIC throwout bearing grenaded and destroyed the nose of the trans. It always gathered crap in the spark plug recesses also, and with the oil leaks needed plug wires frequently. Also had to replace the coil pack... Worst car I've ever owned. And I've had some real POS cars. My protege 5 has 276K, and just now had some problems with the ECM and TPS sensor.

Why didn't you just put a new Valve Cover gasket on it and be done? THat would have saved 99% of your problems. But yes, the Throw out bearing in mine is making noise. What a pile of crap. I mean, t/o bearings only lasting 195k miles? What the hell man.

easycreeper wrote: For those suggesting the MX6, are you referring to the first gen only or are the second gen cars ok? The reason for asking is that there's a second gen not too far from my house for sale and I might go look at it this afternoon when I get off of work. Are parts plentiful?

Either, really.... but we tend to like the 1st gens more. They seem to be slightly better built, you don't see them around, and they get faster for less money.

Also slightly better gas mileage.

That said, i wouldn't turn my nose up at a nice 2nd gen V6. Those are VERY nice to drive, and make great noises. Can look really neat as well.

Parts are plentiful and cheap for either variant. 1st gens are a little easier to work on in my opinion, but the 2nd gen isn't awful.

Oh, and don't bother with a 4 cylinder 2nd gen MX6. They don't really get better gas mileage, and the lack of power and awesome noises aren't worth it.

Thanks for the Callaway pic's. I love that it looks like a normal C4 from the outside. I am a former L98 C4 owner myself. I was ok with getting rid of mine because I told myself I would always pick up another one. Not sure I would feel that way about a Callaway.

Anyhow my suggestions seem to have run more towards the "can autocross" part of your question than the "gets 35 mpg" part. The reason I put a question sign after the Focus is that I remember that it made Car and Driver's 10 best list a few times in the early 2000's and that you can pick them up pretty cheap. However they seem to have come with different engines and trim levels and you might need someone more familiar with them than me to figure out which one to get.

I still stick by 4-cylinder 3 series BMW's for meeting both of your requirements, although they may only get 35 mpg on the highway.

easycreeper wrote: Good places to look for VWs? Autotrader is a pretty limited source and Craigslist is essentially a roll of the dice each day.

As much as the site is hated around here http://forums.vwvortex.com/forumdisplay.php?5087-Volkswagen-Classifieds is still a bit more consistent than Craigslist. Be warned that MK2 owners think their cars are cast from gold. But even with that there are deals to be had.

Well, I went and looked at the "MX6" that I saw over the weekend at a glance. Turned out to be a Nissan 240SX with a slushbox. I feel like I need to relinquish possession of my man card for misidentifying the car. Still, I'm going to blame it on only having seen the car at a glance when helping my dad move some stuff over the weekend...

I think I'm going to have to compromise on something if I want to get a car in the near future. Either budget, performance, or fuel economy is going to have to find some wiggle room. I'm thinking the budget might be the best place to start. What do you suppose an additional $1-1.5K could get me in to?

Neckro: Thanks for the link. I'll begin perusing the wares tomorrow morning first thing.

easycreeper wrote: I'd forgotten to give some of the older VWs consideration because of an aversion to the newer models (wife's last car was a New Beetle and it wasn't very reliable). Are there particular models to be on the lookout for?

Anything built before 1993. Avoid Corrados. I love mine, but they were VW's first move "upmarket" and the electrical stuff will drive you nuts. I'm actually trying to put my 92 8v GTI back together so I can start treating the Corrados as collector cars instead of basic transportation.

A2 Golf/Jetta would do the trick, but they're getting pretty thin on the ground. And as necro said, prices are getting funky about the ones that do show up. Also agree with him about the 8v..with regular maintenance, they don't die, and with a gentle foot, they give about 33-35 on the highway.

I drive 110 miles a day as well, and get 30mpg from the kia. getting 30, i use 3.66 gallons a day. If I had a car that got 20 mpg, I would use 5.5 gallons a day. thats a difference of $12.81 a day vs $19.25 a day using $3.50/gal as a price, which is about the highest that its gotten here lately.
so that's about $32.50 a week, or about 80 cents more an hour for a 40 hour week. say you work a 50 week year with two weeks of vacation, thats $1625 more a year. That is a decent gain, granted, but that is with a radical difference in mileage: like going from a decent sized suv to a kia rio.
so "settling" for something a lot more fun and a little less economical isn't going to make a really huge difference. 35mpg+ cars that are really fun to drive are a lot harder to find that 25-30mpg cars that are really fun to drive.

feel free to correct the math if it's wrong, was holding a couple different conversations at the same time lol

cant believe i just did all that figuring THEN went to that fuel econ site and calculated it out.

friedgreencorrado wrote:

easycreeper wrote: I'd forgotten to give some of the older VWs consideration because of an aversion to the newer models (wife's last car was a New Beetle and it wasn't very reliable). Are there particular models to be on the lookout for?

Anything built before 1993. Avoid Corrados. I love mine, but they were VW's first move "upmarket" and the electrical stuff will drive you nuts. I'm actually trying to put my 92 8v GTI back together so I can start treating the Corrados as collector cars instead of basic transportation. A2 Golf/Jetta would do the trick, but they're getting pretty thin on the ground. And as necro said, prices are getting funky about the ones that *do* show up. Also agree with him about the 8v..with regular maintenance, they don't die, and with a gentle foot, they give about 33-35 on the highway.

For what its worth I'd repurchase an A3 in a minute if I picked up another brutal commute. It's is a fatter A2 with not much improvement in the suspension, but they can still be quite fun to drive. They also do rather well in Rallycross from what I hear.

Add in the ABA was built to take abuse and the Monotronic ECM did its job with the least amount of drama.

Add in the "I'm not a VR6" and the go pretty cheap. Even cheaper than some 8v A2's oddly enough.

Per has have gotten another one for some reason.

Neon. 40 highway, 30+ mixed, and fun.

Vigo wrote: Build one of these: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/1994-honda-civic-d15-3-stage-vtec-turbo-11881.html

This is an amazing accomplishment. Easily a 150 mph car that gets 50 mpg and can run in the 13s, double a arms on all four corners and handles wonderfully, has A/C, easy to fix, and is pretty dammed cheap. Great Build.

Well im glad SOMEBODY actually read it, seems it was mostly ignored. It kinda blows everything else out of the water, doesnt it?

Vigo: I did look at that and it's a very interesting build. Wouldn't mind tackling something like that later on down the road, but for now I need something that I can get in and go for a while. Appreciate the link!

neon4891: These are on my short list too. Unfortunately, they tend to be towards the bottom of the list as I've been around several bad experiences between Chrysler products and transmissions. On the other hand, I've never seen an engine let go and they seem to make more power than other cars in their class...

corytate: Yeah, I've got a spreadsheet on my computer at work that allows me to make many of the same calculations with just a change of vehicle price and projected fuel economy. I do like the addition of weekly fuel savings, though. That's definitely got to be added in there.

I really appreciate all of the help so far, guys! Can't wait to start auto-xing again (and likely spending all of the money I'll be saving in fuel costs).

In reply to easycreeper:

Expanding on the Foci. Stay away from the 2.0 L single cam cars. It is a very common problem to drop the valves into the cylinder. Best case scenario, broken pistons. Many we have found have holes in the crank case though. If you can find a z tec or "twin cam" 2.0 you are in luck though. These motors are dead reliable and more power and better mileage to boot. Great handling car for the price and great price on the early cars around here. We have fixed 3 of the broken single cam foci thus far though. Two had motors that could be saved with a rebuilt head and pistons, and the third car had a trashed motor so we swapped it for a z tec.

Focus with a 2.0L Zetec motor. I still get 33mpg on the highway even with a supercharger on it.

are those the original tires on that Callaway? I didn't know they still sold those

easycreeper wrote: For those suggesting the MX6, are you referring to the first gen only or are the second gen cars ok? The reason for asking is that there's a second gen not too far from my house for sale and I might go look at it this afternoon when I get off of work. Are parts plentiful? Also not far from the house is a 2005 Chevy Aveo LS hatch. It's pretty new and should get decent fuel economy, but it might be mind numbingly boring to drive. Experiences? Good places to look for VWs? Autotrader is a pretty limited source and Craigslist is essentially a roll of the dice each day. Please expand on Foci as well. I kind of get the impression that one should stay away from the first gen cars. Modability? I really appreciate all of the help so far!

No idea on the Mazdas but ...

Aveos are boring and they share an engine with my current car. I hate the engine in my current car so much it's kind of funny. Heavy, inefficient, gutless, fragile, basically the perfect pooh storm of engine design.

Foci are okay, but I like the identically engined, 300 lb lighter Escort ZX2. That's a fun little car, it's tough and dirt cheap to boot.

+1 on the escort ZX2.

AND KEEP THE CALLOWAY!!!!!!

neckromacr wrote:

friedgreencorrado wrote:

easycreeper wrote: I'd forgotten to give some of the older VWs consideration because of an aversion to the newer models (wife's last car was a New Beetle and it wasn't very reliable). Are there particular models to be on the lookout for?

Anything built before 1993. Avoid Corrados. I love mine, but they were VW's first move "upmarket" and the electrical stuff will drive you nuts. I'm actually trying to put my 92 8v GTI back together so I can start treating the Corrados as collector cars instead of basic transportation. A2 Golf/Jetta would do the trick, but they're getting pretty thin on the ground. And as necro said, prices are getting funky about the ones that *do* show up. Also agree with him about the 8v..with regular maintenance, they don't die, and with a gentle foot, they give about 33-35 on the highway.

For what its worth I'd repurchase an A3 in a minute if I picked up another brutal commute. It's is a fatter A2 with not much improvement in the suspension, but they can still be quite fun to drive. They also do rather well in Rallycross from what I hear. Add in the ABA was built to take abuse and the Monotronic ECM did its job with the least amount of drama. Add in the "I'm not a VR6" and the go pretty cheap. Even cheaper than some 8v A2's oddly enough. Per has have gotten another one for some reason.

I may have to start checking out A3s. Heck, at least enough time's gone by that they look like "real" VWs now. (I keed, I keed!)

EDIT: That should be "..real watercooled VWs..".

easycreeper wrote: Can't wait to start auto-xing again (and likely spending all of the money I'll be saving in fuel costs).

Attention GRM staff: If that isn't a "Say What" quote, I don't know what is..

i do 105 miles a day in a 91 civic si. have done this for four years. average around 35mpg. that's with 15 inch wheels and yokohama s drives about 8 months out of the year. consumes a little oil every 3k miles. enough to buy the 5 qt jug to add a qt mid way through oil changes. has died on me once. the distributor. that was at 125k miles. now have 236k on it. still runs like a top. general maintenance is cheap. bought some lifetime replacement axles as anyone who owns one of these knows that once lowered they eat axles. i go through a set a year about. but they are free so it doesn't matter. good to change the trans fluid too. mine was better kept than most. check out my garage for a few pictures.

oh yeah, and the seats? oem recaros. they... feel... sooo... right... god honda got them right in the late 80's early 90's. nothing like working a 12 hour day, getting into my 91 Si and it just hugs me for my hour long ride.. oh yeah, XM is a must. 1st wave anyone?