Proposed Grassroots Motorsports $2014 Challenge Rules

No, roll bars aren't free.

Swank Force One wrote: Or does this mean i can cut the roof off my car and get a free rollbar?

Yes and No. You can cut the roof off, the roll bar counts towards the budget.

But yes, you can cut off your roof.

Sorry. I'll go get coffee....and popcorn :)

And yes, please keep that feedback coming. We'd rather hear it now than later.

Ah so this affects vehicle choice now. Miatas and other convertibles are required to have an SCCA compliant rollbar, against the budget.

Ok, level ground. I can get with it.

I paid $1000 for my Miata and it came with a roll bar, but the body panels are all messed up. I imagine that the replacement panels cost against budget (as will any other repairs I make to the car) but the roll bar is free since it was in the purchase price?

Brett_Murphy wrote: I paid $1000 for my Miata and it came with a roll bar, but the body panels are all messed up. I imagine that the replacement panels cost against budget (as will any other repairs I make to the car) but the roll bar is free since it was in the purchase price?

Yeah, you bought a $1000 Miata with a roll bar already installed.

Build your own roll bar? Steel tubing is cheap.

wait, you HAVE to run a roll bar in a convertible, or you can't run it. But to put it in costs against your budget. Doesn't that seem a bit... umm.... idiotic? Requiring something to be installed, then making them count that against the budget?

From what I've read of these rules, you're basically pushing everyone to ignore the safety stuff (brakes, rollbars/cage etc) and allowing them to go even faster (unlimited tire budgets). Does that seem like a smart thing to do? Seems like a recipe for disaster.

Bobzilla wrote: wait, you HAVE to run a roll bar in a convertible, or you can't run it. But to put it in costs against your budget. Doesn't that seem a bit... umm.... idiotic? Requiring something to be installed, then making them count that against the budget?

Well... brakes are required, too.

Amended.

Bobzilla wrote: wait, you HAVE to run a roll bar in a convertible, or you can't run it.

You can run a convertible without a roll bar--just don't run slicks.

But with an unlimited tire budget, not running slicks is goingto put you at a large disadvantage.

Bobzilla wrote: But with an unlimited tire budget, not running slicks is goingto put you at a large disadvantage.

Then get a closed top car or buy/ build a roll bar...

Not a regular challenger, but trying to get something together with some people for $2014.

I just want to weigh in saying that OE or similar replacement SHOULD be allowed free of budget. If anything, for liabality and safety.

It is a minimal performance impact and a huge safety impact.

Apexcarver wrote: Not a regular challenger, but trying to get something together with some people for $2014. I just want to weigh in saying that OE or similar replacement SHOULD be allowed free of budget. If anything, for liabality and safety. It is a minimal performance impact and a huge safety impact.

This is what a few of us are trying to get across. They're openeing the cars up to go a helluva lot faster, but replacing important safety items are now going to hit the budget. It doesn't make sense unless their end goal is A.) a car on it's roof or 2.) a car on it's roof on fire.

We hear you on the brake parts. I believe that horse has been suitable beaten. We're now discussing it.

Gearheadotaku wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: Could i respectfully suggest that maybe the "street tire" idea that was thrown around last year might have been a better compromise? Something like... "A set of four 180tw or higher street tires are exempt from budget. If you choose to run drag radials in the quarter mile portion of competition, both the tires AND wheels will be included in budget with proper documentation." Opening tires up but restricting to street tires would seem to make more sense from a "Budget Competition" perspective, since there isn't a gigantic speed difference between different street tires, but there IS if you open it up to R Comp autocross tires. Those that wish to win with their wallet will buy Hoosier A6s, the end. Dunno. Honestly, the tire thing is a bit less vexing to me and i'm sure it's not like the entire field of 40 entrants are going to go out and blow a grand or more on Ho Hos.

^ This. I have been struggling with a way to express my tire concerns. This seems to sum it up nicely.

You can take or leave what I have to say about this, since I've never been to the challenge (yet). But I agree with SFO's point of view. Keep it to "street" tires, or at least slicks, R comps and such must take a budget hit.

I get the point of questionably "used" tires being a problem, but that problem could be solved by having a predetermined value for "used" tires. (Set high enough to make cheating unattractive).

In reply to HappyAndy:

The staff said at the town hall meeting, they had considered the predetermined value for used tires but decided that was more work then it would be worth.

This is a editorial event after all. I am sure they don't want a rule book the size of the SCCA one...

I can get a so-so set of hoho r6's for $200......but I still think that tires need restricted.....because someone is going to get hurt, and I don't want to be there when it happens.

It's actually somewhat interesting. I think GRM needs to clear up with SCCA/Martin what they will be requiring for Tech inspection/insurance coverage.

SCCA Does not allow open cars prepared in excess of Streetprepared/Street mod rules to run without a minimum of a roll bar period. That means if you have any modifications on your challenge car that would bump you to Prepared or Mod such as Boost limit modifications, movement of suspension pickup points, removal of interior beyond that allowed in SP/SM, Non-SM legal engine swaps, adding Turbos or any other mods that bump you to Prepared or Mod you MUST per SCCA run a rollbar in an open top car. You also cannot run a car with active Aero.

Edited since comment no longer applied.

Perhaps more people needs to self police themselves. These cars are supposed to pass a tech. No one should show up with a brake system that is dangerous.

Part of building a race car is going through it a$$hole to appetite and identifying any weak points. Don't ruin it for all of us and show up with a dangerous car.

I like KISS...still undecided how I feel about tires. As someone who really does get 275 Hoosiers for free (the guy frequently tells us we are saving him money by taking his old tires) I perhaps can't argue. I sure as heck won't be buying new tires that's for sure!

The brake parts exemption was originally my idea. I am still a fan of it.

However, I also see how it has become an endless nit-picky parade of rules creep.

What I heard overwhelmingly at the town meeting was a perspective that said, "If it's on the car, it's in the budget".

I will therefore support it, if that is what is decided.

But I WILL also have good brakes, regardless of the rules.

For now, I will sit on the sidelines and eat popcorn.

And actually to take it one further if you car is modified such that it is not Prepared legal It MUST have a roll bar per SCCA tech.