GRM: Does such a car exist?

Manual Accord V6 - nice little tricks to do, enough suspension bits to make it an interesting drive, sleeper and great with kids.

BMW 328/330, I laugh at the turbo comments on the *35i as the high pressure fuel pump goes out quite frequently, especially in the earlier cars which are required for your price range.

MazdaSpeed3 and MazdaSpeed6

RX8 (this clicks very few boxs except for kids and communication.)

Infiniti G35/7

IS300 or IS250. 250 will require some searching but is faster than the 300 stock, newer, more comfortable and all around not a bad car.

2015 Mazda MAZDA6 i, it would take some tactical negotiations but I am willing to bet you could get this to budget.

I would do a FoST before a FiST with kids.

An is350 is faster than a 300 a 250 is not.

sesto elemento wrote: An is350 is faster than a 300 a 250 is not.

Stock for Stock you sure about that?

The 2.5-liter pulls the IS to 60 mph in 7.1 seconds, two seconds slower than the 3.5-liter. Still, that's 0.1 second quicker than the fastest IS300 we'd ever tested. The IS250 jogs through the quarter-mile in 15.4 seconds at 90 mph (tying that old IS), compared with the 3.5-liter's 13.7-second sprint at 104.

Any of the turbo BMWs would check your boxes. The NA BMWs are screamers.

chiodos wrote: Bmw with turbo motor. 135i, 335i, heck even a 535i. Otherwise with your requirement of "near instant torque" you want a v8...at g8s at that price point yet?

BMW turbo does not equate to reliable.

You need an S197 platform Mustang. With a set of shocks/springs, swaybars, and a tune they are crisply responsive, torquey, widely available as a 5 or 6 speed, comfortable, and can be had in good shape below your price limit while being as reliable as gravity. Once the plugs are changed, anyway. The trick is that with stock tune and shocks they feel very dead, but you can get one and do all those mods and still be under your $ figure and running low 13s at the drag strip while having enough balance to go play on open track days if you want to and not be a roadblock.

bmw88rider wrote: Winter driving High HP rwd cars in Nebraska is not that big of a challenge with the right tires. I drove V8 mustangs there for years with winter tires and never had any issues. I would have a MS3 well before I'd look at the C30. I wasn't a fan of the MS3 long term though but that is more just that I found it loud and I tend to drive long distances when I drive. I really like my G37. I mean it's a 13.5 1/4 mile car and can cruise for days. In journey trim it's not as sharp as a GTI but I would also drive it across country any day of the week. In the same lines, the TL-S is not a horrible option either. I wouldn't put a 128I in the $15K price range in the reliable category personally but that is just me.

128i - wouldn't it be the most reliable of the "modern" BMWs since it isn't one of the x35i variants? I won't go anywhere near a turbo BMW, at least not the vintage that fit my budget. I realize the 128i won't be a Civic on reliability either but it should be along the same lines as a 330?

G35/G37 - I don't know enough about them - are higher mileage examples trustworthy? These seem to get the universal nod over something like the IS250 too.

S40/V50 - I'd love a V50 although we already have a XC70. 6MT AWD R-Designs are unicorns although I did find one while AutoTempesting last night. I love the look of the C30 over almost anything else in the price range, which is why I chose that option first.

FiST - Test drove one 6 months ago and found it hilariously fun to drive, even more enjoyable than the FoST. I'm not sure I could sell my wife on it, though. She'll consider it as nice as a European rental car and insist we take the Volvo to work. lol

S197 Mustang - I nearly bought one a couple years ago when I was deciding between it and a BRZ (bought the latter, which was a poor/boring choice in grid-system land). I bailed out as I wanted something that wouldn't be a handful in the winter and got decent gas mileage. It also drove a lot bigger than I prefer; it felt like I was wearing oversized shoes or something. I know mods can help with that to a certain extent.

G35/37

Nissan VQ motor, available with a stick in two and four doors, in Japan the four door is the Nissan Skyline (although not the GTR) the 2 door is a Nissan 350z stretched to accommodate a +2 backseat.

Not a bad car, I have driven a few. I have always thought the 4 door was a great sleeper.

Typical Nissan performance product on reliability. Suspension bits can be easily worn out, just replace with better the second time around. Change oil and enjoy.

Too bad you didn't ask me that a couple of months ago; my turbo Sentra would have been perfect for you.

Happy Carmore wrote:

sesto elemento wrote: An is350 is faster than a 300 a 250 is not.

Stock for Stock you sure about that? The 2.5-liter pulls the IS to 60 mph in 7.1 seconds, two seconds slower than the 3.5-liter. Still, that's 0.1 second quicker than the fastest IS300 we'd ever tested. The IS250 jogs through the quarter-mile in 15.4 seconds at 90 mph (tying that old IS), compared with the 3.5-liter's 13.7-second sprint at 104.

Drive the two back to back, 250 feels like a slug, 300 feels alive. A stock manual transmission is300 does 14.9. Also it's a 2jz so it's an anvil that has upside potential.

Prototypical wrote: Any major turn offs for the MS3?

Many have had sketchy previous relationships, but that's not really their fault. Just shop wisely.

I've only ever driven one, and it kind of worried me, even stock. You can surf the on-boost power wave like crazy, but the torque steer always reminds you who's really wearing the board shorts. I could see it being hard to drive on a tight autocross course. You'd either be off-boost, or fighting to point it the direction you actually wanted to go.

Duke wrote:

Prototypical wrote: Any major turn offs for the MS3?

Many have had sketchy previous relationships, but that's not really their fault. Just shop wisely. I've only ever driven one, and it kind of worried me, even stock. You can surf the on-boost power wave like crazy, but the torque steer always reminds you who's *really* wearing the board shorts. I could see it being hard to drive on a tight autocross course. You'd either be off-boost, or fighting to point it the direction you wanted actually to go.

I test drove one and agree with all that. It seemed like it would be a very tiring car to drive daily even though it was a rocket. The one I drove also had a really light clutch that had a very aggressive increase in force at the engagement point, making it very hard to drive smoothly. I'm sure you could get used to it, but it was like a lightswitch.

Currently own a '05 S197, 5-speed Hurst shift w/ BAMA tune, CAI, Pypes muffler delete, Steeda Sport 1" drop, d-specs, tubular control arms, chassis bracing, 255's, 3.55 axle. Love the car for what it is, great handling, specific built.

Also own a '09 335i x-drive, Steptronic, Sport Package w/ paddle shifters, Cold Weather and Premium Packages. Still on run flats tho. Love the car for what it is stock.

IIRC, both cars are w/in 2-300 lbs, w/in a tenth 0-60 and factory rated 300 hp., 4.6L NA V8 vs 3L twin turbo. Absolutely love 'em both.

Each has their own day fwiw. S197 is love/ meh, wish it had a SC or Coyote for a true keeper. Early morning drives are great rowing the through gears, like berkeleying therapy but daily driving gets to be a chore. E92 has become a love/ hate relationship w/ repair bills factored in, always looking over your shoulder... wtf next but a berkeleying dream to drive.

Haven't proven it scientifically but my butt dyno says the E92 will kick the S197 ass all day long highway, track may be a different story. Less a hole shot for the S197 and 1st gear is way short anyway the E92 w/ awd will pull it out. Even on a roll on highway the E92 has it all over. Currently back in love w/ the E92 btw.

Neither disappoints, both are what they are and worth owning IMO, try each out, choose your mistress.

Is there any reason not to throw the Hyundai Gen Coupe into the mix? Manual, can be had with a torquey V-6, Touring trim (which I imagine is comfy), and haven't heard any reliability issues with the 6. I would imagine those can be found in that budget (although maybe not the R-Spec line).

I like the S197 idea myself too, I always gravitate that direction when I contemplate a fun DD.

Pontiac GTO? 2004 models are under $10k on craigslist and make 350hp/365 torque. Downsides seem to be that they are thirsty on gas and have small trunks. But they do have 4 seats and a nice interior. Not sure how they would compare to a S197, but the 2004 models without the hood scoops are more of a sleeper. I'm not sure why these aren't recommended more. Maybe everyone wants to keep the secret?

Groats wrote: Pontiac GTO? 2004 models are under $10k on craigslist and make 350hp/365 torque. Downsides seem to be that they are thirsty on gas and have small trunks. But they do have 4 seats and a nice interior. Not sure how they would compare to a S197, but the 2004 models without the hood scoops are more of a sleeper. I'm not sure why these aren't recommended more. Maybe everyone wants to keep the secret?

sssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

Happy Carmore wrote: G35/37 Nissan VQ motor, available with a stick in two and four doors, in Japan the four door is the Nissan Skyline (although not the GTR) the 2 door is a Nissan 350z stretched to accommodate a +2 backseat. Not a bad car, I have driven a few. I have always thought the 4 door was a great sleeper. Typical Nissan performance product on reliability. Suspension bits can be easily worn out, just replace with better the second time around. Change oil and enjoy.

I'm keeping an eye out for G35/37s especially in 4-door configuration. I'm reading that the X/AWD variants are mostly RWD-biased and aren't the intrusive mess that BMW's system is. Any reason not to consider the X beyond gas mileage?

The Gen Coupes are weirdly still fairly high on price for the V6. I'm not sure I could deal with the ugly mug on the facelifted cars too (pre-FL was much, much better in my eyes).

I'm on the fence for a GTO - one one hand they're really intriguing, and on the other I'm a Ford guy by default. I'd probably be more inclined to pick up a Mustang if push came to shove. I realize this is heresy to say, but are the S197 V6s actually worth considering? They're a lot easier to find around here than the GTs.

On the Aussie bandwagon....

If you want TORQUE, get a V8. If you want room either import a Falcon from down under (good luck) or buy a used GXP or a new SS. If you want a two door the new Mustang is awesome. But the GTO is a lot cheaper. The seats are fantastic. If you can live without a stick the big mercedes are nice, but expensive to work on.

The Monaro will probably be the one that has the best comfort & power, along with decent handling, for the dollar.

Prototypical wrote: I'm keeping an eye out for G35/37s especially in 4-door configuration. I'm reading that the X/AWD variants are mostly RWD-biased and aren't the intrusive mess that BMW's system is. Any reason not to consider the X beyond gas mileage?

Weight and wear and tear on the clutch. Cheaper to spin a tire than replace a clutch

If the Accord / TL manual V6 are on the list then maybe consider the Nissan version?

Altima manual 275ish HP V6 the sedan was available in SE-R performance trim and also available as a coupe. Big and spacious on the inside. Maybe not as nice as the Hondas but the price will likely be lower.

ZHP and you'll have change in your pocket to get some bits from James Clay and the gang to make it even better.

captdownshift wrote: ZHP and you'll have change in your pocket to get some bits from James Clay and the gang to make it even better.

^ These have been floating around the 6-10k mark in my area depending on who's selling it. Not super torquey but everything else in the cabin makes that car a delight to drive.

IS300 or IS250. 250 will require some searching but is faster than the 300 stock, newer, more comfortable and all around not a bad car.

It might run a similar time-to-distance but an is300 is way torquier and more tractable and FEELS way faster.

Also I wouldn't hesitate to drive a manual IS300 pretty much any distance regardless of miles as long as it was in reasonably good shape.

You want my mom's Mazdaspeed6. I'll let you know when it's available.

My 2 cents:

Mazdaspeed6: certainly the best of the 6s. I always felt that neither the 4 or v6 configuration really suited the chassis, so the turbo 2.3 DISI seems to be the best configuration.

s197: Great car. Been searching for one myself lately. Thirsty for a DD and useless backseats, but an early version should be way under budget.

v6 Accord: A 7th gen ('03-'07) can be had all day long for around 7-8K. Honda reliability. I balked at this choice a few years ago when I was car shopping having had a few previous generation Accords. The 7th gen is a different animal and, with a few suspension tweaks and a good tune, way more fun than it seems like it should be on paper.

G35/37: Never driven one but dig their looks and seems like it should be a great all rounder.

Any year BMW: Avoid the turbo models. I've always really liked the e46 chassis and prices are really starting to fall. Beware of coil packs.