GRM's new project car. No, really.

Keith wrote:

dean1484 wrote: While we are talkin technology. Has GRM addrrssed E85. The station down the street just started selling it at about a dollar a gal less than E10.

Sounds like a deal - until you realize that it has a lower energy density than gasoline, so you need more of it. Roughly 30% more. Now look again at the cost differential E85 is really race gas. Wicked octane numbers and cold intake temps. Turbo cars LOVE it if they're set up for it. Plus it smells nice in the dyno room.

It doesn't start worth a E36 M3 in the cold either. A couple of rally teams up here run turbo Subies on it and do quite well.

They struggle to get the cars started at the Rally of the Tall Pines in late November.

so JG, what number is it gonna be? 220? 221?

220 for a one driver car. 221 for the co-driver.

AngryCorvair wrote: so JG, what number is it gonna be? 220? 221?

Whatever it takes.

As long as I can finish in time to make it to the gym and the gun club.

jg

irish44j wrote: wow, I didn't know people ACTUALLY cancelled their subscriptions to magazines over things they read. I thought it was just a funny thing to say to voice displeasure.

I just skip articles about things I don't care about like the electric Miata.

I think this is a super cool car for your fleet. Wonder what it would be like on coilovers and r-compounds.

JG Pasterjak wrote:

By the way, I'm probably not supposed to share this information, but if I get yelled at I'll just say I was drunk. jg

You know what? Just for this line, I may finally resubscribe.

The targa idea is fantastic.

I'd also be curious to see how it compares in terms of efficiency and everyday usability to the original Insight. Always thought those were neat.

(Maybe that's not an appropriate comparison at all; I'm not up to speed on hybrid technology.)

Volt--I think I can skip those pages.

Now if you really want to do a Pointless Electric Car for GRM, the plans are already out there:

Nashco wrote:

volvoclearinghouse wrote: I'd absolutely love an article in GRM about building a hi-po EV or hybrid, whether it's a LoCost sort of build, modifying a gas/diesel only car, or just modifying an existing hybrid/ electric vehicle to wring out some extra performance and/or MPG. .

Do you have a subscription? In the last two years, they've detailed a Miata EV and a Fiero hybrid (mine), both DIY. Not super detailed how-to techy kind of stuff, instead they were features on cars dudes built. Bryce

I will admit, I do not. I used to work with a fellow who did, and he'd pass the mag around the office when he was done with it. I DO subscribe to Classic Motorsports, the sister publication, simply because I tend to lean more towards the older stuff. But I hang out here because the chatter is better than at the CM forum (I suspect that's due to the slightly ahem older demographic there.) So I apologize for my ignorance, and I'd love to read those articles. I should probably just plunk down the coin for my own GRM sub.

That said, I tend to prefer techy, how-to type articles rather than "look at this cool E36 M3 some other dude did." To me, that's like going to a strip club- a bunch of tease, no real satisfaction. I'm more of a do-it-yourself kindof guy.

dean1484 wrote: While we are talkin technology. Has GRM addrrssed E85. The station down the street just started selling it at about a dollar a gal less than E10.

E85 is also super inefficient to produce compared to gasoline. I recall reading somewhere that it takes the energy equivalent of 1 gallon of gasoline to produce ~1.7 gallons of ethanol, whereas it takes the energy equivalent of 1 gallon of gasoline to produce 30 gallons of gasoline. My numbers are off, I'm sure, but the difference was in the 10:1 to 20:1 range.

Then you get into the whole ethical discussion of turning foodstuffs, which are a necessity for people to survive, into fuel for motor vehicles, which is not, and the resulting spike in corn prices, government subsidies, etc.

But yeah, if the engine's tuned for it, it makes a hella nice race fuel.

You want to talk biofuels, a friend of mine is working on a project (he's a bio-engineer) related to growing energy-dense algae that can be distilled into alcohol or "juiced" into biodiesel. The equivalent energy to like 100 acres of corn can be grown in a 1 acre pond. Amazing stuff. Hopefully it makes it to market some day...

JG Pasterjak wrote: I leased. I know... I know.

So, I'm interested in this from a technology perspective. And that is it something different.

However, because you leased, is that not going to limit what you can do to the car? Aren't you going to effectively be limited to parts that you can bolt on and take back off at the end of the lease?

Of all of the concerns about electric cars, most of them can be worked out pretty well, as progress has shown over time.

The problem, I see, is materials. Even with the above progress, you are working with materials that are very not common. So not common that it's going to be a major challege to replace 1% of the current fleet with EV's. Compare that with aluminum and iron- both of which are very common, well, you get the idea.

That's ignoring processing, as well. Just the source of material needed to make this stuff.

While people are working on that major problem, I look forward to reading the reviews.

(oh, and for the person suggesting a comparo with hybrids, I'll point out that a better comparo would be a Accord Hybrid vs. Camry Hybrid vs. Fusion Hybrid- so that you are comparing 3 equal cars- all mid sized family sedans)

Not to derail this thread - but what happened to the diesel generator electric powertrain (ala locomotive)? Did it prove to be too expensive or problematic in implementation? It seems like a very simple solution to the recharging issue that would allow less/smaller batteries in a proven reliable package.

Why did it get scrapped?

BradLTL wrote:

JG Pasterjak wrote: I leased. I know... I know.

So, I'm interested in this from a technology perspective. And that is it something different. However, because you leased, is that not going to limit what you can do to the car? Aren't you going to effectively be limited to parts that you can bolt on and take back off at the end of the lease?

Yes, but even if I bought, I probably wouldn't want to do anything that I couldn't later undo for warranty purposes. There's plenty of folks out there that we can write about with heavily modded CR-Zs and insights and Prii who have gone far beyond what we'd be capable of, or willing to do in house.

jg

Yeah, everyone suggesting wild mods forgets that this is a high dollar car that JG paid for with his own money. How many of you would drop $40k+ on a car and then immediately turn around and start ripping stuff up? I'm not comfortable doing that with a $5k car!

So even if it wasn't leased, I doubt it would be getting a cage.

An interesting tear-down: http://edn.com/design/automotive/4372600/Teardown-reveals-Chevy-Volt-s-electronic-secrets

Keith wrote:

dean1484 wrote: While we are talkin technology. Has GRM addrrssed E85. The station down the street just started selling it at about a dollar a gal less than E10.

Sounds like a deal - until you realize that it has a lower energy density than gasoline, so you need more of it. Roughly 30% more. Now look again at the cost differential E85 is really race gas. Wicked octane numbers and cold intake temps. Turbo cars LOVE it if they're set up for it. Plus it smells nice in the dyno room.

I'm still wondering if it can help for N/A applications...

E85 is really race gas. Wicked octane numbers and cold intake temps. Turbo cars LOVE it if they're set up for it. Plus it smells nice in the dyno room. I'm still wondering if it can help for N/A applications...

It can, for the same reasons, it resists detonation. So, an engine that would be limited to, say, 10:1 compression on 93 octane might be able to hit 12:1 or higher without knocking running E85.

But, much like running premium gas in a car that doesn't require it, running E85 in an engine not optimised for E85 will provide little benefit...and a lot lower fuel economy.

Bingo. I built a naturally aspirated E85 motor for an EP CRX. 13.5:1 compression and it loves the stuff.

DILYSI Dave wrote: Bingo. I built a naturally aspirated E85 motor for an EP CRX. 13.5:1 compression and it loves the stuff.

The other dirty little secret- it does bring more chemical power to the table. Part of the benefit of carrying it's own oxygen along for the ride.

before anyone jumps on me about the less energy/volume, that's very true. The part that's generally missed is that you put even more fuel in than that, and it burns quite well.

Here's the math-

Typical gas has ~43 MJ/kg of fuel, and runs 14.8 kg air per kg of fuel injected at stoich.

E100 has ~27MJ/kg of fuel, and run 9 kg of air per kg of fuel at stoich.

Since your engine is an air pump, totally ignoring the cooling benefits of the fuel, and that E100 is capable of bringing in more air due to charge cooling, it will intake 1kg of air regardless of which fuel you run.

So using that simple information, for 1 kg of AIR that the engine breaths, the pump E0 will have roughly 2.9 MJ of energy being brought to the table. On the other hand, E100 will have roughly 3.0 MJ of energy ready.

Yes, stoich isn't all that far apart, but you can do the porportional math to figure out E85.

so how's that for a major thread tanget. Start about the Volt, and in the middle you have energy information about Ethanol...

The top CSP Miatas run on E85. It's not a huge power gain, but there's enough to make it worthwhile.

Here's a Volt question, brought on by the Targa suggestion. Once the batteries are depleted, can the gas engine recharge them while also hauling the car down the road at 60 mph? I'm assuming so, but I don't know for sure. Running an event like the Targa might turn into an exercise in managing battery power - you'd want to roll up to the start line of a stage with a full charge so you have maximum thrust available. Otherwise, you're just driving a heavy car with a small engine.

Given that this is a leased car on his own dime, I'm sure JG doesn't want to cage it and do all the usual rally prep work to it as that may affect resale value. So that means it would be running in Touring, which is more about the accuracy of the navigator and the ability of the driver to maintain a constant speed and not screw up. Unless he manages to convince GM to donate a Race Volt - JG, if you want some help on putting together a proposal, let me know!

It is leased, so I don't expect you to cage it and all that stuff.

I think tire changes, with stock suspension and with alignment tweeking would be very informative to a lot of folks. I know grassroots doesn't always translate to cheap, BUT.....I think there are a lot of people out there that autocross their daily driver, without maxing out to the available rule sets. I think there could be a lot of value in demonstrating what a set of tires, and a proper alignment can do. This goes beyond alternative drive trains. This would translate to a good majority of your audience. There are a lot of readers that lease a daily driver, or have something they don't really want to add aftermarket parts too. Alignments don't typically require new parts(sometimes you need new parts to maximize stuff). Everyone buys new tires some time.

I think an article like that could be very useful even if the VOLT isn't the primary focus.

93EXCivic wrote:

irish44j wrote: wow, I didn't know people ACTUALLY cancelled their subscriptions to magazines over things they read. I thought it was just a funny thing to say to voice displeasure.

I just skip articles about things I don't care about like the electric Miata.

...and I had the guy autograph my copy of the magazine when I saw him at Makerfaire.

30whp average gain on a DISI on corn...... all it is is tuning.