In reply to buzzboy :
Oof.
That really drives home what buying power there is today.
In reply to buzzboy :
Oof.
That really drives home what buying power there is today.
gixxeropa said:In reply to Tom1200 :
Why buy a cheap car when you can get an expensive one with 300 month financing at 9.59% ?
Just the other day they are already advertising 84 month financing. Unfortunately the high new prices have people with used trucks thinking they are worth way more than they are.
Our Sierra in 06 was $26k. Crewcab, short bed, 2WD, SLE, 4.8 and 3.23 rear with the convenience package (cruise, carpet, keyless entry, rear tint). That's equivalent to $39k now but you can't build a GMC CCSB SLE with zero options for less than $52k now.
In 1998 I bought a Volvo WIA64t. It had a 300 hp Cat 3176 engine with 975 pounds of torque. I hauled courier freight up and down the Coquihalla (highway to hell) five nights a week with it grossing between 65,000 and 80,000 pounds. I always think about that when I see the specs for new pickups. They cost a lot because we cannot control our impulses to always have bigger better stronger faster, and because auto makers are in it for max profit.
Tom1200 said:In reply to alfadriver :
yes, the status symbol is the only explanation I can partially comprehend.
I say partially because I'm counter culture and I can't quite wrap my head around status symbols either.
At some point, we all should realize that we are all different. We drive different, we eat different, we value things differently, we think differently. That's just the way it is.
I've posted this many times, but the enthusiast part of the car market is really, really minor. But for some reason, enthusiasts think they are the gross majority. There are far more people who don't like cars, but just deal with needing one so they get what they want vs. enthusiasts.
DeadSkunk (Warren) said:In reply to alfadriver :
Trucks are just today's version of the full-size family car of the 60s and 70s. When do we start calling them "soccer mom trucks" anyway?
I have been saying for years that the big SUV/pickup thing is simply the second coming of the malaise era land yachts.
In reply to alfadriver :
I get that people like what they like but I still hang up on saddling yourself with debt.........it's a professional hazard.
As for the enthusiast market; we are in total agreement there, our market share is pretty much utterly meaningless.
To get a fair price on a truck you have to be willing to get stuff that's functional instead of "cool" to people who think they're living a country song.
V8's are cool. Modern V6's are functional and reliable, and deliver more power and capability than most people need.
4x4's and lifted suspensions are cool. 2wd and stock suspension are functional and all most people need.
Crew cabs are cool. Extended cabs are functional for people that only need a back seat occasionally, and give you a more functional bed.
Diesels are cool, for reasons I could not possibly comprehend. The 6.2L gasser in the base F-250 is a fantastic motor and reliable as a hammer.
Colorful metal flake paint is cool. Contractor white is functional.
On and on. If you can get by with a white extended cab V6 2wd truck, my guess is that you'd have a lot to pick from under $50k.
Yeah. I own my house. Outright. All my cars are paid for. The guy next door who drives a brand new GMC pickup and a brand new Cadillac Escalade is renting his house from Invitation Homes.
Guess who is going to be moving and dodging the repo man if he loses his job?
I remember 2008.
In reply to alfadriver :
Why do people who don't like cars spend so much of their income on one?
While there are times I miss having a truck - and I've owned many during my life, I am now happier owning vans.
In reply to Tom1200 :
People buy stuff they can't afford, with money they don't have, to impress people they don't like.
81cpcamaro said:gixxeropa said:In reply to Tom1200 :
Why buy a cheap car when you can get an expensive one with 300 month financing at 9.59% ?
Just the other day they are already advertising 84 month financing. Unfortunately the high new prices have people with used trucks thinking they are worth way more than they are.
The fact that they have to offer 7 year financing is a pretty clear indiction that prices are out of whack with income. It used to be 4 years of financing was a lot. Government mandates drove up the price of vehicles and higher taxes drove down the available resources to pay the note. Have ya'll prices cars lately? Seems like $40,000 is the new normal.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to alfadriver :
Why do people who don't like cars spend so much of their income on one?
While there are times I miss having a truck - and I've owned many during my life, I am now happier owning vans.
Good question. But it sure seems they do- like to compensate.
I have rented the huge trucks before. I really don't like driving them. A few months ago I rented a brand new Silverado to move some stuff. It was literally bigger, wider and longer than my motorhome with a bed that wasn't any bigger than my old F100 longbed. Unlike the motorhome, you couldn't live in it. Why would anybody want anything that big? The biggest Mercedes sedan costs more, rides better and it is much easier to park downtown.
My neighbor used to have a 2000 Silverado Extended Cab with a longbed that I borrowed from time to time. I could fit anything I wanted in the bed, tow the boat and put my dogs in the back seat. It was the perfect size for a utility vehicle. They could have stopped there. 23 years ago. I should have bought it from him. Now the stuff they build is too wide and too tall and the front ends are designed to intimidate whoever you might be tailgating at the time. Are you kidding? Anybody who wants to drive something like that really needs psychiatric help.
In reply to jharry3 :
Although I partially agree with what you're saying, part of it is that people are hanging onto cars longer now. Some of that is necessity, but some of that is the reliability for newer vehicles is much better, too. Running your for 200k miles before even considering looking at a new rig is fairly pedestrian now. How many people would have done that 30 years ago? When you buy a truck every 10 years vs. every 5, the math changes a bit.
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:Anybody who wants to drive something like that really needs psychiatric help.
Umm you do realize this is what the rest of the world thinks of the Hives vehicles.............of course we freely admit we need psychiatric help.
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:To get a fair price on a truck you have to be willing to get stuff that's functional instead of "cool" to people who think they're living a country song.
V8's are cool. Modern V6's are functional and reliable, and deliver more power and capability than most people need.
4x4's and lifted suspensions are cool. 2wd and stock suspension are functional and all most people need.
Crew cabs are cool. Extended cabs are functional for people that only need a back seat occasionally, and give you a more functional bed.
Diesels are cool, for reasons I could not possibly comprehend. The 6.2L gasser in the base F-250 is a fantastic motor and reliable as a hammer.
Colorful metal flake paint is cool. Contractor white is functional.
On and on. If you can get by with a white extended cab V6 2wd truck, my guess is that you'd have a lot to pick from under $50k.
4x4 isn't a stupid luxury north of the Mason Dixon. Snow, Ice, slush are all handled better with 4x4.
at the end of my driveway is a steep enough hill that you will not get up it without 4x4.
Then there is mud !?!? Even on level ground slippery enough mud and rear wheel drive just sits there and spins.
I also need 4x4 to pull my cruiser out of the lake ( and put it in ) wet moss!
I hate how high the stock 4x4 is and laugh at fools who lift them higher.
As for a V8? Well hauling my race cars up and down the hills in the Kettle Moraine region around Elkhart Lake. It doesn't have to drop down a gear or two to get up the hill.
Oh but I don't need or want an extended cab. Looking for a place to park, making a U turn, moving through traffic? Parking it in a garage already filled with stuff? Thanks but no thanks.
In reply to frenchyd :
I remember back when I lived in Colorado 4 wheel drive Subarus were a big thing. I actually had a Subaru station wagon back then with studded snow tires. It went everywhere and got decent gas mileage doing it. They don't make them that small any more but they still make four wheel drives.
racerfink said:People buy stuff they can't afford, with money they don't have, to impress people they don't like.
Well said.
I think it also helps to clarify what you mean by truck. Mine exists to tow my racecar to the track. Your 1995 F-150 had a towing capacity of 7,500 lbs for $39k. I paid $41k for my 2020 Tacoma which has a towing capacity of 6,800lbs. I'd guess that the Tacoma is a zillion times better in just about every way than a 1995 F-150 for only $2k more. It gets my racecars to the track just fine. Seems reasonable to me?
You guys are shopping around in the rolling palace of torque category, looking to tow 25,000lbs all from the comfort of a leather recliner with a fantastic stereo and some fancy system that'll back up your trailer for you.
Compare apples to apples; what did a truck in 1995 with specs similar to the 60k trucks you're comparing to cost? A modern F150 can apparently have a tow rating of 12,500?
I've heard from multiple people that the prices of trucks started to skyrocket once tax laws allowed small businesses to write off up to $100k of a vehicle purchase cost sometime in the mid-2000's. Not sure how accurate that is, and a quick Google search says that's been changed in the current tax code, but it does correlate on when we started to see big manufacturers' trucks start to really take off price-wise. I know that in my everyday traffic, most of the "commercial" trucks I see are loaded F250's, Silverado HDs and Cummins Rams. Some are even modded and have big, dumb wheels and other things, but they have MA Commercial license plates and business lettering on the tailgate and sides.
The price of base model trucks has skyrocketed as well. My FIL is a contractor, and he's always bought the most stripped, bare-bones Chevy you can buy. It gets used as a hammer half the time and gets dinged and knocked around the job site, so why buy a fully loaded one? His current truck is a white, zero option '20 Silverado long bed 2WD. I think that thing was $30k with him getting a screaming deal when he bought it.
For me, this whole thing is why I have a 44 year old truck. I bought it cheap, it's cheap to maintain, and I'll likely keep it forever. Problem is, old trucks are now "collectible", so the prices are way high on those too! Glad I can turn a wrench (allegedly) and can make improvements to this one as I go. I'd love to get something newer like a mid-sized rig with 4x4 to DD and go play with on the weekends, but the prices keep me away.
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to frenchyd :
I remember back when I lived in Colorado 4 wheel drive Subarus were a big thing. I actually had a Subaru station wagon back then with studded snow tires. It went everywhere and got decent gas mileage doing it. They don't make them that small any more but they still make four wheel drives.
Yeh, some of us really work our trucks. My Chevy cost me $20,000 4x4 V8 A/C sport package etc. but it lasted 20 years before rust got it, and 371,000 miles.
It carried my house, here. ( (honestly) Massively overloaded,
it's replacement doesn't work nearly as hard but then I'm 75 .
jharry3 said:81cpcamaro said:gixxeropa said:In reply to Tom1200 :
Why buy a cheap car when you can get an expensive one with 300 month financing at 9.59% ?
Just the other day they are already advertising 84 month financing. Unfortunately the high new prices have people with used trucks thinking they are worth way more than they are.
Seems like $40,000 is the new normal.
$48,5XX was the average transaction price for a new car last quarter. Another data point: Chips are still relatively scarce. OEMs don't have 100% of the components they need, so they're using what they do have to build the highest profit units. Those tend to be very expensive trucks & SUVs
Tom1200 said:I'm trying to wrap my head around why a pick up truck routinely costs 60-80K
Because people who spend that kind of money want a luxury car wearing overalls.
And they can charge that much because people will spend that much.
buzzboy said:Patrick said:ram 3500 4x4 tradesman crew cab short bed.
2016 msrp: $56,500, advertised and paid $44,500
2023 msrp: $76,825, advertised at $72,545
you went apples and oranges here though. MSRP to asking price, vs the discounts dealers were offering in the before times. $44,500 in 2016 is $56,570 today
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