Help me pick a tow vehicle

After 20+ years of towing to races, you learn that you need excess towing capacity. You are going to be travelling late at night and on the interstate competing with tractor trailers. Suburbans, Expeditions and Tahoes are your best bet to make it home after a race weekend.

IntegraR0064 wrote: So I need to start towing the S2000 to autocrosses, so I'm starting to think a tow vehicle is in my future. ... So basically I'll tow to and from maybe 5 events a year, 4 of which are within a 500 mile radius and one which is about 1300 miles away. I live in PA. The maximum budget is probably $15k-$17k, including the trailer. ... The tow vehicle will therefore be used for: 1) Towing 5 times a year as I mentioned 2) Daily driving 3) Long trips where we want something comfy or have more than a golf bag worth of luggage, lol 4) Home Depot trips - lumber, etc 5) Snowboarding trips . .. I'd like to be able to take two more people in a pinch, so I'd like to have something where two adults could sit in the back for an hour without being permanently squished, haha. ...Gas mileage is important obviously, but I'm not too concerned about it. We both have a 5 mile drive to work, so we don't rack up a ton of miles. Ride quality is a big plus, since this would be our long trip car. Something relatively quiet and relatively nice ride would be a huge plus. .. So we'll say 4500 lbs loaded trailer. Then in the car we'd have the two of us plus stuff for a few days, so say 500-800 lbs of weight in there I guess. So what are some options. Right now I'm thinking an extended cab full size pickup like an F150 or a silverado or Ram 1500 is probably my best bet - what do you think? I was also considering something more crossover SUV/pickup like a chevy avalanche or a GMC Envoy XUV.

Given what you will tow my standard recommendation is 300ft-lbs of torque and 7000lbs tow rating. The torque to pull the load and 7000lbs rating to control it. That still leaves you will many options.

Two good ones are full size crew cab pickups or full size SUV's. The difference is that SUV's tend to be better road drivers and trip drivers. However they tend to be more expensive and are not as good at hauling dirty crap like pick-up trucks.

So Ford F150, Chevy Silverado, Dodge Ram 1500, Nissan Titan, Toyota Tundra, Expedition, Tahoe, Suburban 1500, Avalanche, Seqoia, Pathfinder Armada.

Mid size SUV's can also work, but you really start needing to watch your loadings. Many only have 5000lbs tow ratings and while you can tow from here to there towing any distance is hard. I used to tow my 944 race car behind a 4.0L Jeep Cherokee. It worked, but only for short trips. It was too much weight to pull and too much weight to control. I move up to a 2500 dodge V10. Great truck, but more truck than needed for a car on an open trailer and less than I ideal for no towing applications. It is very harsh when not loaded. Stil tows great and when I moved up to a 24ft enclosed it towed it well.

You can of course get a 3/4 ton truck, but really that is overkill for an open trailer. The 3/4 ton will ride harsher and if you have a gasser it will suck the fuel down and a diesel with never get up to temp on a short drive and never even break a sweat on a long tow. Total overkill.

No a ful size half ton pick-up or full size SUV is probably the best. Any will probably do the job well so pick the one you like.

Thanks for all the advice guys. Right now we're thinking we'll do a conversion van of some sort, that seems to make the most sense for us. We won't haul mulch or anything I wouldn't feel OK tossing into a van, and it seems like other than the "image" there's really no other downside to them vs a truck.

I found some not horribly priced Roadtrek's (the small van based ones like the 190) - that seems like it might be a good idea to save some hotel fees. Trying to decide between doing that or getting a more normal conversion van and eventually putting a bed, microwave, and the capability to air condition from an electrical hookup. I'm leaning towards the latter since we'd never stay in it for more than a weekend, probably at a campsite, and it seems like the roadtrek would require a lot more maintenance and stuff with all the water systems, etc. Any thoughts?

This was brought up on an RV thread when I was looking at trading my truck for one. Adding in all that extra camper stuff usually diminshes the tow rating so be sure you check into the rating of the roadtreks before you pull the trigger.

Most conversion vans have a rear seat that folds out to a bed, microwave could be run off a good inverter. You could probably add a roof mount AC like an RV has to a converstion van. I had looked at plopping one on the roof of my bus a few years back, around $300-$500 if memory serves correctly.

I'd also suggest to shelve the idea of towing w/ a mid-size truck. I'm towing a 16' steel open car hauler (a 1988 "Big Tex") w/ a 1000# D sports racer, 2 extra sets of very light wheels, basic pit and driver equipment. The vehicle is a 2000 Toyota Tacoma SR5 Pre-runner w/ the 3.4V6 and tow packages.

On flat terrain and around town it's perfect. Easily handles the weight, and it's got a towing capacity way in excess of the 3200# load.

Add some hills and some heat? not so good. Towing to Summit Point from DC a couple of the hills on Rt 340 are 60mph in the right lane @ near WOT. Towing to VIR on Rt 29 in 100 degree weather for the UTCC had the poor thing straining to get over the hills past Lynchburg.

I had the use of a 5.7V8 '07 Tundra w/ an 18' V-nose enclosed to pick the car up in Pittsburgh. It effortlessly dealt with the hills at the expense of a gas gauge which moved visibly. It was staggeringly bad mileage.

I'm on the fence as to whether to fabricate a very light, purpose built trailer which would fit through my 8' gap between house and fence to the garage out back and be an easy tow w/ the 'Taco, which I love otherwise, or to throw down and get something with a lot more torque.

V8 swap into the Tacoma? I just thought of that...

JThw8 wrote: This was brought up on an RV thread when I was looking at trading my truck for one. Adding in all that extra camper stuff usually diminshes the tow rating so be sure you check into the rating of the roadtreks before you pull the trigger. Most conversion vans have a rear seat that folds out to a bed, microwave could be run off a good inverter. You could probably add a roof mount AC like an RV has to a converstion van. I had looked at plopping one on the roof of my bus a few years back, around $300-$500 if memory serves correctly.

Thanks

Those rear seats that fold into beds...are they comfortable at all? We're both a hair under 6 feet tall so they don't look big enough? Also, obviously they're not going to be as good as a mattress, but they look like they might be horrendously uncomfortable. Are they better than they look?

I agree with JT - Class B RV's (what a SRW van-based RV is) may have trouble towing a car trailer.

Unlike most other RV's which drop in value like a stone, Class B's seem to hold their value well. I'd be weary of one that was in your price range as it would likely need pricey maintenence or repair work. (Slide-in truck campers also seem to hold their value well).

I did a lot of this research when I was racing DH mtn bikes, which similar to auto-x travel-events, would have me at a venue from Friday through Sunday. The fold-down seat bed worked well enough for me by myself, but I had to sleep diagonally. For two people, I'd remove all seats and put down an air mattress. Adding a roof A/C unit would require stripping out the conversion ceiling and some structural reinforcements as the fiberglass top isn't designed to support the weight or additional wind resistance shearing load.

What really makes a van a questionable camper is the lack of a good bathroom. A portable toilet is easy enough, but any sort of shower will be a compromise due to the height, even with a raised roof version. This is the main reason I've drooled over Sprinters - the amazing headroom compared to any other van. Class B conversions have taller roofs than a typical conversion van and some have dropped floor sections as well (usually for the showed). Also, men tend to be more tolerant of "rough" toilet/shower facilities than SWMBO, so you would need to get a sense for what 'she' will tolerate.

As much as I really want another van, eventually I'll probably end up with a goose-neck car trailer instead, since I already have a truck that can easily tow one. Then do modifications to it so I can use it for camping (vs. a toy hauler which typically don't haul heavier cars very well). The difficulty will be storing it.

I think the conversion van can really fit your need. The shower/toilet thing can be made, so long as it's an outside solution. I'd mount class 3 hitch points on either ends of the rear bumper. That way you can add a bumper dumper, and also a portable solar shower. Ultimately the inside of the van is for sleeping. You really don't want a crapper in there in a rigged up situation anyway, it stinks up the place no matter how you do it.

Even though it looks like you have decided on the conversion van I was reading this thread ans thought about this http://www.sccaforums.com/forums/forumid/63/threadid/409068/scope/posts

w/ the 3.4V6

I beginning to detect a problem here.

Ian F wrote: What really makes a van a questionable camper is the lack of a good bathroom. A portable toilet is easy enough, but any sort of shower will be a compromise due to the height, even with a raised roof version. This is the main reason I've drooled over Sprinters - the amazing headroom compared to any other van. Class B conversions have taller roofs than a typical conversion van and some have dropped floor sections as well (usually for the showed). Also, men tend to be more tolerant of "rough" toilet/shower facilities than SWMBO, so you would need to get a sense for what 'she' will tolerate.

Well in terms of this, I was thinking we would just be at a campsite and use their shower/bathroom, or when staying at the site use the portapotties or bathrooms at the site and if we need a shower go to a truck stop and use their shower, or something. Sometimes there won't be a way to shower close by and we'll either agree to go without a shower for a weekend or just stay in a hotel for that one depending what we feel like.

Honestly I'm not thinking we'll camp in it every event, but there are some sites (Seneca in NY comes to mind) where camping just makes so much sense. Also when we're on a multi-day tow for sleeping overnight. If we can convert between "camping mode" and "haul lots of crap" mode, it's better for me than a truck which is just in "haul lots of crap" mode. Plus vans are cheaper.

Anyway, here's another question. Should I be trying for the heavier duty chassis, i.e. E250/350 instead of E150 or 2500 instead of 1500, etc? I've read that conversions reduce payload significantly so that might be a good idea. They seem harder to find though.

Also, if I'm looking in the 1998-2005 range, should I stay away from any particular makes/models of van? Or should I look at different years? It's hard to find reliability information on this stuff. Any particular features I should be trying for or planning on adding like transmission coolers, etc?

Thanks for the help.

If you get a conversion van, a E250/350 would be better but very hard to find. Another option is if you get a E150 van cheap enough, hit the pull-a-part and grab an E250/350 rear axle, springs and front suspension/brakes and swap them in. Best of both worlds.

Yep. Conversion vans larger than an E150 are rare. They are/were custom orders vs. typical dealer stock. I've seen them from time to time (there's are even rarer extended length conversions), but they tend to sell for a bit of a premium when in good condition. Coincidentally, a lot of the E250 conversions are also 4x4 conversions.

The frames on the E250/350 vans are different than the lighter van, so I'm not sure how easy the swap mentioned above would really be.

As far as load capacity... I once had my van loaded (overloaded, to be honest) with about a cord of firewood. It was definitely low on the springs and the crap/incorrect P-rated tires were not happy, but it made the 100 mile trip from the Poconos to the g/f's house in central NJ without too much complaint (I kept it in D vs. OD). I had planned to buy proper 235XL tires and some helper springs if I had kept it and did that trip regularly.