Help my avoid the inevitable

Subscriber-unavailabile said:

I grew up looking out the back of Taurus wagon! Nothing like staring at people drivin around!

When I was 9, I loved riding "tail gunner" in the 1976 Impala wagon that belonged to some friends of my parents.  We had a 1980 Malibu wagon, which was sadly lacking the rear facing 3rd row.

I sort of get the minivan love.  A minivan is probably better than almost any other SUV/CUV out there from a space utilization and general utility stand point.  

All that being said, however, I think Suburban > Minivan, at least in our experience.  The Sub holds more, tows more, and from what I have seen, is a more ruggedly-built vehicle.  Plus, when you start shopping used, the value (read: depreciation) makes them more than comparable.  

Is a 15 mpg Suburban really going to cost more, over the long run, than a 25 mpg minivan?  Depends on a lot of factors.  

My wife went from an S-15 Jimmy 2 door to her Suburban.  Other than parking, its size isn't really an issue for her.  The biggest issue is that the cargo hold is so massive, she will literally drive around with stuff back there, while putting in/ taking out other crap, and it not really affecting the utility of the thing until we need all the room to go camping or something.  

Buy a 'Burb.  

*EDIT: I see that strictly by the numbers a 2019 Pacifica has a bit more cargo volume in the seats removed position than a 2019 Suburban.  My experience with 'Burbs is strictly the pre-2000 variety, which were absolutely cavernous.  

If minivan isn't the answer then obviously you need a RoadMonster. Seating for 7, car like handling, rides like sitting on a cloud. 

At a guess, a GMT900 Suburban drives better, and rides almost as good. 

The proper answer is still minivan though. We went through 2 of them. Then the wife bought a Mustang. She misses the minivan. After you have had one, it's hard to go back to something less useful. 

volvoclearinghouse said:

I sort of get the minivan love.  A minivan is probably better than almost any other SUV/CUV out there from a space utilization and general utility stand point.  

All that being said, however, I think Suburban > Minivan, at least in our experience.  The Sub holds more, tows more, and from what I have seen, is a more ruggedly-built vehicle.  Plus, when you start shopping used, the value (read: depreciation) makes them more than comparable.  

Is a 15 mpg Suburban really going to cost more, over the long run, than a 25 mpg minivan?  Depends on a lot of factors.  

My wife went from an S-15 Jimmy 2 door to her Suburban.  Other than parking, its size isn't really an issue for her.  The biggest issue is that the cargo hold is so massive, she will literally drive around with stuff back there, while putting in/ taking out other crap, and it not really affecting the utility of the thing until we need all the room to go camping or something.  

Buy a 'Burb.  

*EDIT: I see that strictly by the numbers a 2019 Pacifica has a bit more cargo volume in the seats removed position than a 2019 Suburban.  My experience with 'Burbs is strictly the pre-2000 variety, which were absolutely cavernous.  

I've never driven a suburban, but I have owned a 3/4 ton Silverado with extended cab and long bed. Unless I need to tow something (or go over rougher terrain than I've been on... well, ever), I'll take the minivan every single time. Other than the cool factor. I loved that truck, but from an objective point of view, the minivan wins unless I need to tow.

I agree that a minivan is the best family-mobile.

We have a Honda Pilot because we needed a third row, needed some extra ground clearance, and frankly we just didn't want a minivan.  It has been perfect for our needs.  It has been on 6+ hour drives many times, and while it isn't the most comfortable thing in the world, it is an excellent compromise pretty much everywhere.  Currently sitting at 180,000 miles with zero issues except power steering that feels funny when it's really cold outside.

volvoclearinghouse said:

 

Is a 15 mpg Suburban really going to cost more, over the long run, than a 25 mpg minivan?  Depends on a lot of factors.  

I agree that the 'burb is probably the best 'manlivan' there is. But the answer to your question above is: absolutely. Gas and depreciation are the big costs of driving. Many GRMers can minimize depreciation (buy used, take good care, buy good deals and fix something, etc), but few of us can buy gas cheaper than the people around us. Say the long run is 100k miles. At $3/gal, that's $20k (15mpg) vs $12k (25mpg). Don't be fooled by high end gas however, mpg of regular unleaded /= mpg of premium!!

In reply to Robbie :

A $4000 transmission replacement buys over a thousand gallons of gasoline.  Not to mention the inconvenience of being stranded.

Many minivans have....questionable transmissions.  Not that a 4L60E is the greatest piece of kit ever, but with a cooler and a not towing in overdrive they generally make 200k miles.  

Again, depends on your usage.  Our Suburban sees about 5,000 miles per year- mostly on family road trips, with the rest on running the kiddos around town.  It would take us 20 years to make that 100k mile mark you mentioned, which works out to about $400 per year more in gas, using your figures.

If we needed a rig to serve dual purpose (daily commuter and long distance/kiddie hauler) that would see those 100k miles in 5 years, then yes, the scales would tilt more favorably towards the 'van.  So I guess the next question for the OP is, how many miles we talkin' per year?  

Subscriber-unavailabile said:

Now that the wife and I have moved, we are unable to see our nieces and nephews as much as we’d like. We would like to be able to go get them but with us and 2 kids we can barely squeeze one more into our vehicles. Are there any decent mid size 3 row SUVS out there can accommodate 6/7 people. Wife already said suburban is too much vehicle for her, and she’s been nagging on about a minivan.. and I realllly don’t want a minivan. Sounds horrible just typing it out.

Re-reading this, she wants a minivan.  So buy her a minivan.  

My wife likes her Suburbans, so we bought a Suburban for her.  

Get the picture?  

mtn said:

Esoteric Nixon - Jordan said:

Antihero said:

Heres a curve ball.....B Body wagon.

 

Lots of room, v8 power and not a minivan

I've owned two B Body wagons, and sadly, there's no comparison; a new minivan is superior in every way (aside from character).

Well now, that is just false. The B-Body can tow wayyyy more, and it leaves a much longer strip of rubber.

Ah, I forgot towing. Although I never towed with either of mine.

volvoclearinghouse said:

In reply to Robbie :

A $4000 transmission replacement buys over a thousand gallons of gasoline.  Not to mention the inconvenience of being stranded.

Many minivans have....questionable transmissions.  Not that a 4L60E is the greatest piece of kit ever, but with a cooler and a not towing in overdrive they generally make 200k miles.  

 

I haven't heard of any recent minivans with a "questionable" transmission. The ChryCo's were fixed in the mid aughts, the Hondas were good by 2005. Hell, my aunt and uncle just sold their 06 Oddity with 378k miles on it, still on the original transmission.  Just about any minivan with a questionable transmission is 15 years old anyways. 

If you’ve owned a T&C or GC and a suburban you won’t compare interior space; while cubic feet may be similar space utilization is very different. I’m a van kind of guy; station wagons, minivans, full size vans are all good in my book - but from the useage side nothing beats a minivan. I think the currrent GC and end of the run T&C was the best yet. I’ve not peruses the Pacifica yet but plan to in the near future as our T&C is nearing 100,000.

the Pacifica even looks pretty good!

MadScientistMatt said:

A minivan is going to be the best tool for the job when the job is carrying six or seven passengers in city traffic. They do a good job of fitting a lot of seats into a not terribly huge exterior package.

On the other hand, a lot of people forget you can get a Tesla Model S with three row seating. Not sure it would fit your budget or driving needs, though.

I came here to say this. Haha. Expensive, but easy access to the 3rd row.

Esoteric Nixon - Jordan said:

Antihero said:

Heres a curve ball.....B Body wagon.

 

Lots of room, v8 power and not a minivan

I've owned two B Body wagons, and sadly, there's no comparison; a new minivan is superior in every way (aside from character).

Better at not being a minivan?

Don't get me wrong, I like vans and got my dad to buy an Aerostar( which is a great minivan btw) but the very pinnacle, best of the best minivan sucks at not being a minivan.

Having said that, the list the OP posted basically screams minivan

Minivans are awesome and perfect for what you are looking for.

Don't buy an SUV unless you need to tow.

Minivans are quick, stop well, handle well, and are convenient as berkeley!

We own a Mazda 5.  2 kids, 2 dogs and a rooftop carrier.  Perfect.

Well I hate to say a suburban would be waste but it pretty much would. I don’t often need to tow and when I do I have access to vehicle that can. Don’t get me wrong I have sweet spot for big chevys. We had one that got passed around my family like a doobie at Woodstock and abused like a rental car driven by 16 year olds. Yet it never died and finally got sold with about 400,000 miles and still ran great! 

My biggest issues is I’m not going to take on any payments. Don’t care how nice of vehicle or how good of deal I get I’m not a fan of debt. I’ll most likely try to trade my Infiniti in strait up or just sell it and fund a purchase.

Scouring CL there’s decent amount of caravans ranging $2500-&5000 with mileage around 120-150k miles. Just need to make time to go out looking now

wvumtnbkr said:

Minivans are awesome and perfect for what you are looking for.

 

Don't buy an SUV unless you need to tow.

 

Minivans are quick, stop well, handle well, and are convenient as berkeley!

 

We own a Mazda 5.  2 kids, 2 dogs and a rooftop carrier.  Perfect.

Not only that, but you can put crazy suspensions on them! 

morello159 said:

....... Stow-n-go seating is magic ......

This, very much this.  Until Chrysler/Dodge's utility patent expires, they are THE answer because of this feature alone.

Wow, Im surprised that the the Sienna Minivan has not been mentioned once in this thread. I bought a used 2003 in 2009 with 60000 miles on it and my wife drove it all over until 2018 and ended up with over 240000 miles on it with the original engine and transmission(trans rumored to be"glass"), sold it to a rural mail carrier to deliver mail in, and it is still going strong. Proper maintenance is key to longevity but that's true for any vehicle.  I said all this to bring this point.

I said once upon a time that I would never own a minivan, never ever. that car met our need, in every way. Don't sweat it, get the minivan and everyone else can go suck an egg. Or a minivan, which is generally shaped like an egg.

Best decision you will ever make. Minivan.

What about a Chevy Traverse/Buick Enclave/GMC Acadia? Econoline Club Wagon?

Sliding doors save the world from your kids' door dings.  

Nothing quite says "suck it" like a big old Suburban-sized door ding in the side of the minivan that parked too close to your wife.  

Indy-Guy said:

morello159 said:

....... Stow-n-go seating is magic ......

 

This, very much this.  Until Chrysler/Dodge's utility patent expires, they are THE answer because of this feature alone.

That is pretty much the end for me.  When I bought my current GC GT, the plan was to buy a new 2018 Pacifica SE. Until I got to the dealer and saw they didn't have stow-n-go.  "Well... we have this 2017 GC GT with just under 25K miles... cheaper too..."  Add to that the berking thing is loaded with a lot of current comfort-tech and it was a done deal.  I'll concede that if your primary use is people hauling, then stow-n-go might not be as important. But for me, the primary use is cargo (bike hauling) and the seats are stowed 99% of the time.  Being able to easily switch it back to "bus-mode" should a bunch of us decide to go to lunch at work is the deal breaker over other brands. 

Some rough Googling indicates the first patent was granted in 2005.  And I think patents last for 20 years so we should start seeing variations from other brands in 2025.

Variations have existed for a long time.   At least in part. 

The Mazda MPV has had a stow and go rear seat since 1999.  Coupled with center seats mounted in tracks which slide from side to side (opening up a center aisle when needed), and seat backs which fold flat (and enable plywood hauling). 

It was all I ever needed. And it out-handled the Caravan by a long shot. 

In reply to Ian F :

Why would Chrysler’s patent prevent Chrysler from putting stow and go in its own car?  (The Pacifica)

That doesn’t make any sense. 

I must have entered the wrong forum... I thought I was on GRM but instead I have been directed to the Minivan Love forum.

Leaving now to fine the real GRM where practicality isn’t a thing and the weirder the better is the rule.

BTW I wouldn’t be caught dead in a minivan, don’t care how “practical” they might be.