Alright so I've discounted the LS and all the other engines that I had mildly thought about. From what I've heard from everyone I should go with something small and light and high revving so in the running now:
KLZE
B5254S (don't know much about it but damn it's alluring)
But now I'm thinking of the n54 or n52 bimmer engine because the i5 got me thinking, why not more cylinders
ANd the 1uz torque keeps pulling me back
Christ I've fallen back down the rabbit hole
In reply to ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter) :
Oh really, I'll have to look back at the engine weights list. I think I will go with the KLZE but I've fallen back down the rabbit hole of engine choices now thinking about the B5254S and bimmer n52 and m54, crikey this is hard
In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :
BTCC of the era followed Super Touring Class 2 rules. I didn't look real hard, but the .pdf Super Touring 2 rule book I found from turn of the millennium specified, "The fuel must be commercial petrol which comes from a service station pump," between 102 & 95 RON. I'm not sure what that is in 'merican octane units?
In reply to bigdaddylee82 :
Yeah that's between 90-100 ish octane, so it's definitely pump gas territory
I'm a bit fan of the SR20 VE (or DET). Another option that comes to mind is the he whine from an EVO IX I drove, I found it very tractable and it still delivered power well beyond 5k RPM.
In reply to dj06482 :
Those are both wonderful exceedingly sensible choices, and I don't like them because arbitrarily and possibly idiotically I don't want an i4
Oyy vey, so i thought I had it narrowed down to KLZE and 1UZ and was so close to jsut going with the 1UZ when I realzied a few things
There is a low (ish) displacement 40V!!! V8, but it's audi and doesn't have the best aftermarket or tuning options. But still 40V and german engineering and only 4.2l in a v8
between 1500-2000 I can get a maserati spec ferrari f136 v8. A ferrari V8 for $1500!!!! But not too much aftermarket especially for head work to make it rev to 9k. Additionally there isn't much aftermarket for that much else: Forged turbo pistons, forged rods, and it's an italian v8........
I can get an audi v10 5.2l for around 3.5k. Granted this might be just a tad out of the price range but god damn would it be glorious and the idea of saving up and waiting a little longer becomes much more attractive if there is a v10 at the end. But same issues with the ferrari v8, little aftermarket and making it rev as high as I want might not be fun, nor may turboing it.
UGHHHH
THoughts?
enginehelp said:Hayabusa, Crazy engine but it would be too taxing to have it in a car that will be driven hard IMO
These are used in radicals, and I've heard guys go ~100 hours of race/track time between rebuilds. IIRC its warrantied to 40 or 50 hours. No way is a turbo KLZE or 1UZ spinning >9K going to last that long.
In reply to ProDarwin :
100 track hours? THat's very impressive. So 173 hp, weighs like 85kg and lasts 100 hours. Oh and a sequential. The chain drive would be my only isue.......
S2000?
Why are you putting a forged rotating assembly in everything? People have made 1000hp on stock ls internals.
Your only looking for 500hp?
If you want a cheap 5 cylinder just get the vw 2.5 they take boost pretty well and make a great noise. Then if you feel obliged to put forged internals you can always crank it up to moon boost.
What do you even want to do with the car? What's your power goal?
enginehelp said:In reply to ProDarwin :
100 track hours? THat's very impressive. So 173 hp, weighs like 85kg and lasts 100 hours. Oh and a sequential. The chain drive would be my only isue.......
You have other issues too- that engine is also the "Torque Everest" like you said earlier, and they weren't built for cars even ones as light as the Europa.
The Mazda KL is a wonderful engine and can put up to E36 M3loads of abuse, but if you lose the OG variable intake it suffers down low as it gets stuck in the "long" position and acts like a tunnel ram. Fine for turbos, but not for N/A; the American version has a stroker crank to 2.2L and it actually is a detriment to the engine.
From past threads I can say any other Dual-cam V engine will be hard to fit- I would vote the 1UZ every day but it's probably far too wide, which sucks because i'ddo everything the KL can but for FAR cheaper. LS engines fit, so don't discount the LS4 just because it's "common". Other than that, I would go for some kind of I5 with an aftermarket, like the Volvo Whiteblocks.
Be kind of hard to beat a modern turbo Ecotec. They come in both sidewinder (Cobalt etc.) and in line (Solstice/Saturn) forms - would need to be hooked to a transaxle in the latter case but would then replicate the original Europa pattern.
How much power are you after? Anything up to 500 bhp+ is just a matter of swapping parts and programming. Plus the torque of a small V8 to boot.
In reply to 1SlowVW :
Piece of mind if I do crank up the boost. I just like to have something overengineered that will take abuse rather than good enough. You know?
I've decided against the LS though. It's just oomuch. Toomuch weight, too much power, too much low end torque.
vw makes 2.5s?
In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :
It'll be a halfway between a track day car and a road car. SO it'll spend time on the street but I want it to do some track day work. No classing or anything I'm not worried about that I just want a great drivers car that I can take to the track, so lightweight, manual etc. I want at least 400hp, which I think the KLZE can do raising the revs, aggressive cams, and lots of boost, or up to 500ish hp if I went v8.
I pretty mcuh discounted the hayabusa but prodarwin said they do trackw ork for 100 hours and radicals are very fast cars, but also probably lighter than this will ever be
I definitely want to turbo it because I want more power than NA could provide. I know I know NA is supposed to be the best driving feel and don't ruin it with turbos but I want more pwoer so
Which threads may I ask? I haven't found much on the Europa here so any info I can get would be great. THat's really dissapointing, no amount of massaging will make it fit? I was really starting to lean that way because like you said it'll do everything KLZE does but better. I know the LS would be the most sensible option but it's hard to settle for something so archaic (pushrod v8), american (pushrod v8), and kind of boring to me. Plus it's like 50 pounds heavier than a 1uz (440 lbs to the UZ's 390). I think maybe I need to get a body shell and try to fit different engines in
I5s have been reccomended and I fell for them but then I realized there is like no aftermarket and my google skills faield me in finidng modified ones that make good power numbers
In reply to solfly :
THose are like $3000 territory. If I decided to spend that on and engine I'd go with a maserati spec f136 (1500-3000) because ferrarie ngine. Plus I have an aversion to i4s
In reply to wspohn :
Ecotecs go up to 500???? THat's insane. I haven't really considered i4s as I consider them to be the most boring of engiens and have an aversion to them but that's impressive
Hmmmm. Have you considered V12?
In reply to Shaun :
No I hadn't.....should I?
If I wanted small, lighweight, powerful motor for track use I would go Synergy V8... 10,900 rpm in a 3.0L V8 with 515hp... They also have smaller displacement versions @2.4L and 2.0L (with 11,600 / 14,500 rpm redline and 405/400hp respectively). To say they are just a wee bit expensive would be an understatement though... LOL
Sound really good though...
And Nissan Titan VK56 reworked to spin at 9krpm isn't half bad either...
And whats wrong with the 1.6L Toyota 4AGE motor? It's basically a version of the 1.6L Cosworth BDA race motor... architecture is incredibly similar not to mention the sound they make...
Cosworth BDA (from 1:02 onward): https://youtu.be/DUpfvGEymjA
Toyota 4AGE:
In reply to Vracer111 :
That would be the dream. I even thought about asking for the cnc cad files for their crankcase and all their cnc bits and seeing if a machine shop can make me a one off but that'll still porbably be very expensive
I've never heard of the vk56.....is it a good motor. Obviously it can spin up to 9k but how long will it last up there. Do you know what it weighs?
VK56 is the Nissan Titan / Armada motor... would be heavier than an LS motor. I'm sure the stroke is reduced from stock as well for the race prepped versions.
In reply to Vracer111 :
Yeah 500lbs......thats a dealbreaker
Some engines that I thought of off the top of my head that have more than 4 cylinders and are high revving (or may have the potential to do so):
-Ford 3.0L Duratec V6
-GM LQ1 DOHC V6
-GM Northstar or Shortstar
-Toyota MZ or VG V6
-Honda J-Series V6
while i know the LS series are pretty common, and maybe not as exciting due to the drama-free powerband, if you had enough room in the back of that lotus to build a set of 180 degree headers, it really changes the character of the engine. hard to fabricate, but mid engine cars are well suited to it thanks to the amount of space behind the engine, usually.
toyota 2GR-FE. seems to work well for the MR2 guys, and good grief is that sound intoxicating for a V6. being mass produced, i'd imagine you can find one for a decent price.
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