Wait... people seriously disable VCM by fudging the coolant sensor reading? There are all kinds of temperature-compensated calibrations in an OE ecu that are made completely inaccurate by spoofing the coolant temperature the ECU sees. Timing, fueling, knock sensing, cam phasing, my truck even alters the shift strategy when everything is cold. Yikes - I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole.
codrus said:bluebarchetta said:Ideally, you want a 2007-10 EX. 2007 and newer gets you the good Ridgeline/Pilot transmission; 2010 or older EX means no VCM (cylinder deactivation) that leads to excessive oil consumption. It took some searching, but I just bought a 2008 EX.
2005-10 EX-L and Touring, and all 2011 and newer, have VCM.
The earlier VCM doesn't have the ring issue, that's just the 2011+.
False. TSB 13-080 covers this exact issue on 2008-2010 Odysseys with VCM. Honda goodwill'd this repair on my wife's 2010 EX-L even though we were 3 months outside the term, because i had record of changing oil-fouled plugs 2 years earlier.
TSB also includes a PCM reflash to modify the VCM entry criteria, but it doesn't make it go away completely. i bought and installed a "Max Muzzler" from OdyClub forum member "maxud" about a week after having TSB 13-080 done. It slightly lowers the coolant temp signal to the PCM, so it doesn't activate VCM. Since that time, I've only seen the ECO light come on once, on a brief downhill after a long uphill pull on US30 east of Breezewood PA, where i guess my coolant temp was slightly elevated for long enough to meet the entrance criteria.
Dave M said:Knurled. said:bluebarchetta said:Ideally, you want a 2007-10 EX. 2007 and newer gets you the good Ridgeline/Pilot transmission; 2010 or older EX means no VCM (cylinder deactivation) that leads to excessive oil consumption. It took some searching, but I just bought a 2008 EX.
You can also avoid VCM by getting a 2007-10 LX, but the LX lacks power doors and some other goodies the EX has.
2005-10 EX-L and Touring, and all 2011 and newer, have VCM.
I wouldn't get the power doors. I wouldn't say they are "problematic", but things wear and I've de-cabled enough of them to not want that mess in my life.
What! That's the best thing on a van hands down! Worth whatever headache they cause down the road.
Many hundreds of dollars and you need to take the interior apart to access the motor assembly, and the door won't shut or open until you fix it.
I get that for some people the benefits are worth the potential hassle. I've never actually replaced the motor assembly yet, because cutting the cord to make the door manual-only has been what people preferred.
Knurled. said:Dave M said:Knurled. said:bluebarchetta said:Ideally, you want a 2007-10 EX. 2007 and newer gets you the good Ridgeline/Pilot transmission; 2010 or older EX means no VCM (cylinder deactivation) that leads to excessive oil consumption. It took some searching, but I just bought a 2008 EX.
You can also avoid VCM by getting a 2007-10 LX, but the LX lacks power doors and some other goodies the EX has.
2005-10 EX-L and Touring, and all 2011 and newer, have VCM.
I wouldn't get the power doors. I wouldn't say they are "problematic", but things wear and I've de-cabled enough of them to not want that mess in my life.
What! That's the best thing on a van hands down! Worth whatever headache they cause down the road.
Many hundreds of dollars and you need to take the interior apart to access the motor assembly, and the door won't shut or open until you fix it.
I get that for some people the benefits are worth the potential hassle. I've never actually replaced the motor assembly yet, because cutting the cord to make the door manual-only has been what people preferred.
We had an 03. Went through two transmissions. But the doors... Oh the doors...
I told my wife that I didn't want to deal with the doors or the transmission, but she insisted because of the power doors. And they're kind of cool when they work. But I had to do the right side motor and new rollers on both sides. Those jobs were absolutely horrible. You have to take the interior apart and then contort yourself to be able to get at the mechanism that's between the inner structure and the outer steel. The rollers wear and then they bang the door against the side which destroys the paint. Replacing those is easier than the motor but still no picnic.
In reply to Knurled. :
We are on our 2nd Ody with power sliders. on our '03 i replaced both roller assemblies to which the cables are attached, because the plastic bushing/roller pieces fall apart. i had a memory storage failure and lost the spreadsheet on that one so i can't tell you the miles. on our 2010 i replaced the RH roller assembly at 143k and the LH at 168k.
In reply to the OP. :
on our 2003 EX-L, we received NHTSA recall notice for trans failure when it had only 44k miles. dealer service guy said he'd "never seen one with the gears so blued that hadn't exploded yet." they R&R'd the trans (this would have been 2005-2006), and that replacement never missed a beat, with only one or two fluid services, until we traded it in at 256k (April 2014). that van also ate the EGR valve around 100k and the AC compressor around 175k.
on our 2010 EX-L, there was a fuel pump recall TSB 14-032 whcih we had done in 2015 at 81k. about a week later, they replaced the PS pump under TSB 11-039. In Jun 2016 at 91k i got P0302 misfire code, and replaced all 6 spark plugs. #2 was badly oil-fouled. I also swapped all six ignition coils front to rear because at that time i wanted to see if the problem was caused by a coil going bad. around 120k i replaced both halfshafts to cure an on-throttle vibration. then in April 2018 at 131k, set P0302, again #2 plug was badly oil-fouled. By this time i had heard about TSB 13-080, so I put in a set of plugs and took it to the dealer. We were 3 months outside the extended warranty called out in this TSB, but because i had pix from same issue in 2016, Honda covered the TSB for me.
the only other "oddball" failure on the 2010 has been corrosion on the oil pressure sending unit causing the oil light in the dash to flash occasionally, and then eventually stay on. this is the 3-pin sending unit on the back of the engine, down low on the RH side, and it controls ONLY the idiot light. I replaced the sending unit and the harness-side connector pigtail at 148k.
on this van, i've been pretty diligent about doing the 3-quart ATF drain and fill with every oil change (7500-mile interval), and we're at 168k now.
replaced front sway bar end links at 157k. it needs front LCA Bushings. i'll probably do complete LCA assemblies plus outer tie rod ends, because i'm that guy when it comes to my wife's daily.
morello159 said:Wait... people seriously disable VCM by fudging the coolant sensor reading? There are all kinds of temperature-compensated calibrations in an OE ecu that are made completely inaccurate by spoofing the coolant temperature the ECU sees. Timing, fueling, knock sensing, cam phasing, my truck even alters the shift strategy when everything is cold. Yikes - I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole.
There are at least 2 CLT sensors on this engine. IIRC the one that is fudged by the VCM defeat devices is not used for much (if anything) other than VCM control.
ProDarwin said:Avoid VCM. It kills motor mounts which are expensive. The delete kits are very wonky, but better than VCM.
Our '07 has a PS hose, PS pump, Alternator, Engine mounts, and a few other things go bad. In the span of about 20k miles. All of these things were expensive. When I joked about this with the parts guy he was like "oh, you have had to do the power doors or xxxx yet?
".
With no exceptions, every non-OEM Honda part I tried on the van was utter garbage.
Honestly, this is one of the reasons why I push Chrysler minivans. Are they as good as some of the Honda or Toyota models? Maybe not. But the one thing they will always have over their Asian based competitors is sheer numbers sold and those numbers makes parts and repair costs CHEAP.
morello159 said:Wait... people seriously disable VCM by fudging the coolant sensor reading? There are all kinds of temperature-compensated calibrations in an OE ecu that are made completely inaccurate by spoofing the coolant temperature the ECU sees. Timing, fueling, knock sensing, cam phasing, my truck even alters the shift strategy when everything is cold. Yikes - I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole.
One of my "favorite" Honda diagnostic hairline-receders was an Accord that set a P0128 (failure to warm up fast enough, basically) which is practically always a bad thermostat. Replaced thermostat. Code came back a month later. Replaced with different brand. Came back. Replaced with Honda, which took a while since they don't stock thermostats. Came back. Frustrated and out of ideas short of setting fire to the car, quitting my job, and starting a new career babbling mindlessly at traffic downtown, I replaced both coolant temp sensors. Datalogs of the warmup period looked identical before and after changing the sensors. But... no more P0128.
Babbling at traffic as a career shift is still on the table sometimes...
Art the risk of jinxing myself: I have a deep and unabiding love for the 2nd gen Odyssey. I've had 2, an 03 and an 04.
The trick I read for the transmission thing is to add a cooler (which I did to both) and to regularly change the fluid. There's also a little external filter on the transmission that needs to be changed occasionally. Doing these things have kept my vans ticking along trouble free for some time now.
They're just such great vans. Really they're a primary reason why I'm doing the J series swap in my Prelude.
The only ones I would straight up avoid are the PAX tired ones. But that can (and often is) solved with a set of aftermarket wheels.
The BYBA and BMXA autos were the junk. Solenoids would get a speck of something in them and not send fluid. Didn't take long to fry clutches at that point.
Paul_VR6 said:Ex-l and Touring have PAX and no spare tire which is a fun surprise.
In 3rd gen EX-L doesn't have pax
Either way, 3rd gen 16" models = non pax
morello159 said:Wait... people seriously disable VCM by fudging the coolant sensor reading? There are all kinds of temperature-compensated calibrations in an OE ecu that are made completely inaccurate by spoofing the coolant temperature the ECU sees. Timing, fueling, knock sensing, cam phasing, my truck even alters the shift strategy when everything is cold. Yikes - I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole.
Yes. Its an ugly solution. However, its not a mega difference.... Its something like 179degrees when the thermostat is a 185 degree thermostat.
Also, did you see the price of that engine mount? Remember, there are 2 in the car. And its like a 5 hour job to change them. Not fun.
Ian F said:ProDarwin said:Avoid VCM. It kills motor mounts which are expensive. The delete kits are very wonky, but better than VCM.
Our '07 has a PS hose, PS pump, Alternator, Engine mounts, and a few other things go bad. In the span of about 20k miles. All of these things were expensive. When I joked about this with the parts guy he was like "oh, you have had to do the power doors or xxxx yet?
With no exceptions, every non-OEM Honda part I tried on the van was utter garbage.
Honestly, this is one of the reasons why I push Chrysler minivans. Are they as good as some of the Honda or Toyota models? Maybe not. But the one thing they will always have over their Asian based competitors is sheer numbers sold and those numbers makes parts and repair costs CHEAP.
I don't blame you there. If I had the issue once or twice it wouldn't bother me to pay that kind of money for a repair. Its when there are like 10 common things that go wrong and each is $500 in parts.
After going down the Odyssey route, I thought to myself, next time I'll just get a 6 year newer Chrysler with half the mileage for the same price. Or a Mazda 5.
Dave M said:Knurled. said:I wouldn't get the power doors. I wouldn't say they are "problematic", but things wear and I've de-cabled enough of them to not want that mess in my life.
What! That's the best thing on a van hands down! Worth whatever headache they cause down the road.
On the newer gens I don't think its possible to get without power doors?
I don't find them that handy. They are annoyingly slow. They won't open unless you shift to park. They are a massively expensive repair for something that shouldn't need to be repaired (I've never repaired a non-power door of any sort on a car, ever).
I'm not a fan of introducing failure points on a car that don't have a significant benefit to the user. Also I hate power rear hatches.
Get off my lawn.
ProDarwin said:Also I hate power rear hatches.
No comment on power doors, but as a Honda Family since the early 80s, after our Oddyssey, never again. Sienna all the way.
That said, my TSX Wagon has a power hatch, and aboslutely love it. Most redeeming quality about the car. Very handy at home depot and at costco, which is what the TSX wagon is best at.
We had a 2010 from 65k to either low 200 or high 100k. I replaced the starter, alternator, power steering pump. The rotors twice and a few sets of tires. In the end the drivers sliding door couldn't be repaired and I traded it in to carmax after my crank bolt removal fiasco. It ate a brand new accessory belt In the parking lot right after the deal was done and I believe was about to have a cam issue. The inside of both seats were vinyl and not leather and both were peeling.
all in all it was a pretty nice people mover- but I'd probably still have it if it was a Toyota. We replaced it with a Lexus GX460.
In reply to mr2s2000elise :
The front mount is not too bad. You get a lot of practice doing them, anyway.
The rear mount is really only accessible with the subframe out. Fortunately it is loaded in compression, not tension, so it is relatively unstressed, and if it does fail, you'd never know it.
I used to say wait until the trans needs to be rebuilt, but gosh, they figured out how to make them last over 60k. Which kind of sucks, because the rear main seal housing also has an O-ring that seals the back of the main oil gallery, and after 150-180k or so it starts heaving oil, and fixing that requires dropping the trans too. Now there's no good excuse to fix those minor problems while the trans is out for rebuild, because that just doesn't need done anymore.
The O-ring on the oil pump, at the other end, also fails around the same time, but that only requires removing the timing belt, exhaust Y-pipe, and oil pan to access. Not nearly as labor intensive.
You can definitely get the rear mount out without dropping the subframe. .
In reply to Paul_VR6 :
How do you do it?
Again, have never actually needed to do it, but the accessibility looks less than stellar with the trans in the way on one side and the converter in the way on the other side. And if step one is "remove converter". it's probably faster to find the engine support in the shed and drop the subframe.
Re: rear mount, I did the rear mount without dropping the subframe. I forget the logistics, but it wasn't fun. Left the exhaust in place.
mr2s2000elise said:
That said, my TSX Wagon has a power hatch, and aboslutely love it. Most redeeming quality about the car. Very handy at home depot and at costco, which is what the TSX wagon is best at.
My coworker has 2 cars with power hatches (1 being an odyssey) and I constantly give him E36 M3 for how slow they are. It costs more, weighs more, is another failure point and moves at about 1/5 the speed of a normal hatch. I hate the concept of adding expensive failure prone stuff to a car which has more downsides than upsides.
I'm definitely in the minority here, but honestly with RFID/bluetooth/whatever is in new key fobs, I don't even want any buttons at all. We are finally at a point where an auto manufacturer could make a key *smaller* than traditional car keys.
ProDarwin said:My coworker has 2 cars with power hatches (1 being an odyssey) and I constantly give him E36 M3 for how slow they are. It costs more, weighs more, is another failure point and moves at about 1/5 the speed of a normal hatch. I hate the concept of adding expensive failure prone stuff to a car which has more downsides than upsides.
I'm definitely in the minority here, but honestly with RFID/bluetooth/whatever is in new key fobs, I don't even want any buttons at all. We are finally at a point where an auto manufacturer could make a key *smaller* than traditional car keys.
Cant comment on others power hatch. My tsx wagon is 8 years old, 120k miles, bought new. Hasn't failed yet.
if it's heavier - don't matter, it ain't a race car
speed wise, power hatch and doing it manually is literally the same speed on my car
I am a Luddite when it comes to Bluetooth and stereo. Never listened to music in life, listen to am radio . So I am worse than the get off the lawn guys
all that said - love my tsx hatch powered.
You guys are all yelling at me to get off your lawn!
Meanwhile, I'm at the school drop-off line and getting those kids in and out of the van in style. They are the best thing about having a minivan hands down. That, and the luxury child appointments inside.
What I'm trying to say is, all that fancy stuff they load up a nice van with that is aimed at parents - integrated vacuum anyone - is mostly amazing if you have kids. Will it break? Sure. But it's like seat heaters...I just don't care if it will break, it's worth it.
I do have a kid.
I don't miss the minivan one bit from a parenting standpoint. Or the cost of ownership. Or the driving.
I do miss it from the utility standpoint (as in I could fit big things inside it).
Knurled. said:In reply to Paul_VR6 :
How do you do it?
No clue but I have done it three times now and it didn't seem any harder than the tons of other crappy jobs there are to do. I have done over 100 sets of vr6 timing chains where step 1 is remove transmission so I am not easily daunted.
In reply to Paul_VR6 :
Fair enough.
In my mind, dropping and reinstalling the subframe on a Odyssey is a maybe one hour job, at worst, if you need to heat the nuts holding the Y pipe to the converters, so I can't see fighting things if I can just drop the subframe out the way. If you're just doing a motor mount, you wouldn't even need to remove the ball joints or stabilizer links, just unbolt the steering shaft and three fluid lines (I unbolt the P/S pressure line from the pump and drop it out with the subframe) and a handful of fasteners and let it dangle. It's not like they are all wheel drive with the driveshaft to get in your way or anything.
Certainly would be a crapton easier than doing, say, a starter on a K24 engined CR-V...
Have a 2011. Not impressed at all.
both of our older Chryslers have been more reliable. Wonky doors, wonky lift gave, rust, piston ring failure, lack of torque, uncomfortable, poor ergonomics, crappy load floor and opening, no stow and go, etc.
just a sub-par offering. Get a Grand Caravan and save thousands and be happier.
No way whatever I did took longer than minutes. Standard well equipped home garage "drop subframe" is not in my vocab unless its a project car.
In reply to DrBoost :
For some folks the Dodge is not on the menu for safety. I like driving the Dodge and it saves $ but at this point the design is antiquated from a crash safety standpoint. Family car and all that.
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