How young is too young?

Otto Maddox wrote: I've decided you people are nuts.

You are a little slow on the up-take eh? That should have been obvious years ago.

93EXCivic wrote:

Otto Maddox wrote: I've decided you people are nuts. Kids 12 and under don't die from injuries sustained in football or soccer. They just don't. I am sure someone can pull out some bizarre situation where a small child with a congenital heart defect or something died, but that doesn't count. I am talking about blunt force trauma, snapped necks, that kind of thing.

A cousin of a very good friend died at 12 from hitting the ice in a hockey hit.

I live in Alabama. What the hell is hockey?

Otto Maddox wrote:

93EXCivic wrote:

Otto Maddox wrote: I've decided you people are nuts. Kids 12 and under don't die from injuries sustained in football or soccer. They just don't. I am sure someone can pull out some bizarre situation where a small child with a congenital heart defect or something died, but that doesn't count. I am talking about blunt force trauma, snapped necks, that kind of thing.

A cousin of a very good friend died at 12 from hitting the ice in a hockey hit.

I live in Alabama. What the hell is hockey?

So do I. And I go watch hockey all the time.

In reply to 93EXCivic:

was your friend wearing a helmet like those?

In reply to Otto Maddox:

Yes. Full mask and everything.

Otto Maddox wrote: I live in Alabama. What the hell is hockey?

It's the fastest sport that doesn't use an engine.

From 1982-2002, the total numbers of direct and indirect fatalities among high school athletes were:

Baseball — 17

Basketball — 88

Cheerleading — 21

Cross Country — 14

Football — 22

Soccer — 31

Track & Field — 47

Wrestling — 16

Every child and parent is different. Its their responsibility to make sure the driver is properly trained regardless if the age. I see no reason someone under 16 can't race on a closed course.

Unfortunately, when risks are taken, results can be tragic.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the child and family.

I wonder if racing or driving on the street has fewer teenage deaths, mile-for-mile. Granted, for kids under 15 or so, that's not an issue.

Kids get hurt. The decision to support your kids participating in a sport that is considered dangerous by some is none of my business. Not my place to dub you a "bad parent", unless the activity is illegal.

Otto Maddox wrote: From 1982-2002, the total numbers of direct and indirect fatalities among high school athletes were: Baseball — 17 Basketball — 88 Cheerleading — 21 Cross Country — 14 Football — 22 Soccer — 31 Track & Field — 47 Wrestling — 16

I wonder why basketball is so much higher than the others. Track and field has a larger number as well, but maybe there's a higher incidence of heart problems from kids running.

In reply to stuart in mn:

I am figuring the overwhelming majority of the basketball deaths are from heart defects.

I bet cheerleading has the most deaths that come directly from the activity.

Vigo wrote:

I don't have a problem with carts and the like at a younger age.

I dont really get that.. In what world is a cart safer than a car? I mean, he wrecked at less than 50, let's say, and there are plenty of carts that can wreck at less than 50, and id venture they're less safe while doing so. I did some electric cart racing at a K1 a few weeks ago. There was nothing in front of my face (windshield, A pillars, part of a roll cage, etc). Which means any given thing (like another cart that SOMEHOW gets airborne) can ram me right in the throat/head. Sort of like how Ayrton Senna died. Maybe carts are generally safer because they go slower, but make a car go that speed and it's going to be safer.

I'd argue that it's possible a car is safer than a kart. My son is 11. On a .7 mile sprint track, he's hitting 67 mph. He has a Snell 2010 helmet, a neck brace, a chest (and rib) protector, leather gloves and a skid proof suit. No seatbelt, nor roll bar. In karting the idea is if they flip (which is probably the worst accident), you want them thrown from the kart. I've seen it happen, and 90% the time, the driver's halfway out of the kart before it goes over.
In car, there's rollover protection, seat belts, helmet, maybe a Hans, etc. The speed (in the article example) is ever lower. I think where the increased danger lies is in the sheer mass of a car vs. a kart.

And to Otto Maddox, I understand your thoughts. But I can assure you that "kids at that age" can have the skills necessary to do the sport. My son has three "teammates" and I watched them just this last weekend do 20 laps around a sprint track bumper to bumper. The entire race, there was no more than 6" between them, except for when they would pass each other. We joked they looked like a train or a stunt driving group. It takes an unbelievable amount of skill to do that and there were no wrecks or hard bumps the entire time.

-Rob

stuart in mn wrote:

Otto Maddox wrote: From 1982-2002, the total numbers of direct and indirect fatalities among high school athletes were: Baseball — 17 Basketball — 88 Cheerleading — 21 Cross Country — 14 Football — 22 Soccer — 31 Track & Field — 47 Wrestling — 16

I wonder why basketball is so much higher than the others. Track and field has a larger number as well, but maybe there's a higher incidence of heart problems from kids running.

I was wondering why basketball was so high. I mean if the heart problem was so large you would think soccer would have more deaths then basketball because you run a lot more in soccer then basketball.

93EXCivic wrote: I was wondering why basketball was so high. I mean if the heart problem was so large you would think soccer would have more deaths then basketball because you run a lot more in soccer then basketball.

It's difficult to be "PC" about this, but I'd bet the kids playing soccer often have better medical care where they catch said defects before they become a serious health risk. Plus, basketball ball can be an incredibly physical sport at the amature level.

In reply to Ian F:

I bet you are right. Maybe better conditioning, diet, etc.

Ian F wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: I was wondering why basketball was so high. I mean if the heart problem was so large you would think soccer would have more deaths then basketball because you run a lot more in soccer then basketball.

It's difficult to be "PC" about this, but I'd bet the kids playing soccer often have better medical care where they catch said defects before they become a serious health risk. Plus, basketball ball can be an incredibly physical sport at the amature level.

You might be right about the first part but I played both basketball and soccer until high school (well soccer thru high school). And soccer was WAY more physical (I had a broken leg, multiple broken toes, concussion, etc) plus multiple fights.

Although thinking about it, it is just the number that died not percentage. And I bet more people have played basketball over that period then the other sports.

Although thinking about it, it is just the number that died not percentage. And I bet more people have played basketball over that period then the other sports.

Ah, good point. I didn't think about that.

stuart in mn wrote:

Although thinking about it, it is just the number that died not percentage. And I bet more people have played basketball over that period then the other sports.

Ah, good point. I didn't think about that.

Indeed. While soccer may be more popular in the US than it has ever been, I'm sure it still pales in comparison to the number of kids playing basketball.

93EXCivic wrote: You might be right about the first part but I played both basketball and soccer until high school (well soccer thru high school). And soccer was WAY more physical (I had a broken leg, multiple broken toes, concussion, etc) plus multiple fights.

Yeah, but how many of those soccer injuries were real and how many were faked for the ref?

My sister has an 8 year old daughter. She can't walk to school without an escort for fear of...well, fear. The same school my sister walked to when she was 8, and the neighborhood has not gone downhill one little bit. She doesn't do anything more risky than little girl dance class. I feel sorry for her.

Big difference between a kart and a car crash is the amount of "stuff" around you and the associated momentum. There's a lot more energy involved when a 2000-2500 lb car slams into a wall than when a 300 lb kart does. The kart might not even reach the wall.

The line that got me in the article is where he said 5 year olds were allowed to race in that class.

Seriously?

Keith wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: You might be right about the first part but I played both basketball and soccer until high school (well soccer thru high school). And soccer was WAY more physical (I had a broken leg, multiple broken toes, concussion, etc) plus multiple fights.

Yeah, but how many of those soccer injuries were real and how many were faked for the ref?

My opinion on diving. Anyway I played thru all those injuries except the broken leg.

but maybe there's a higher incidence of heart problems from kids running.

Or a higher incidence of people with generally bad health being pushed into the sport because they are tall?

I don't think so. I was (am) tall and in good health. I was pushed in....and pushed back out as soon as they realized I sucked at basketball.

Life is not without risk. This family made a choice. There were risks associated with it which they were willing to take. Crap happens sometimes. Feel for the family; learn what you can to make things safer for others. But let's not go on a witch hunt looking for someone to blame. Too much of that happens day in and out in without us adding to it.

It's 1:30 AM. I just got home from a race. My 17 year old son, Johnny raced his American-Canadian Late Model Stock car on a 1/2 mile track last night. He has been racing since 10, starting in karts, then 600cc motorcycle powered sprint cars. He is very good at it. The odds are long, but he dreams of being a professional driver.

A Hans device would not be effective ( I believe) in most Kart accidents. Most Karts don't have a roll cage and the driver is not strapped in. I made Johnny race in a class of Karts with full roll cages and a true racing seat with a 5 point racing harness. I also made him wear a Hans Device. He didn't want to. No one else wore one or had even heard of a Kart racer wearing one. While it is true that a Kart will scrub speed off very quickly ( you spin them out to stop fast), It is also true that they are fast and situations do arise where they can hit a wall head on. My son's Kart would do 70mph. He did have an accident in which his Kart was turned and he hit a wall, head on at full throttle. I have a video of the accident. The Hans, in my opinion, saved him from serious injury or worse. The Kart was destroyed. He walked away, bruised but OK.

I have insisted on the most up to date safety equipment for him in everything he has raced. Injuries are not 100% avoidable but I want to give him the best chance to stay safe. If we couldn't afford the safest equipment and a properly constructed, safe car, I would not let him race. If he did not respect the equipment and other drivers, I would not let him race. If he did not maintain good grades and was not a good citizen, I would not let him race. And, I would not work on his car unless he was there beside me working too.

Johnny told me today of this accident. It is tragic. My thoughts and prayers are with the family. According to what Johnny has read a Hans device may have prevented this fatality. I believe that they (or other brand of head restraint) should be mandatory for any one racing a vehicle that is equipped with driver restraints.

Unfortunately, life is by nature, risky. Sports are risky, a bicycle is risky, (maybe the most risky) skate boards and other fun things too. We choose to participate in life.