iceracer wrote: Also the Escort was often rated at the top for reliability. Ford produced both the Escort and the Focus for app. two years in the US. So they needed a new name On subject. My ZX2SR was listed as a compact. My 2011 Fiesta has almost the same measuremnts and weight yet is listed as a sub-compact.
On the other hand if you think back to when the 1 series was introduced in the states and every comparison, even from GRM was that the extra size of the 3 series made it a better car. More stable, better handling.
I am more worried about how ugly manufactures are trying to make cars. It is almost like they are doing it on purpose just to see if people will still buy them.
Hideous. It looks like a monster from a godzilla movie or something.
iceracer wrote:iceracer wrote: Also the Escort was often rated at the top for reliability. Ford produced both the Escort and the Focus for app. two years in the US. So they needed a new name On subject. My ZX2SR was listed as a compact. My 2011 Fiesta has almost the same measuremnts and weight yet is listed as a sub-compact.
The classifications like compact and sub-compact are done by interior volume size not exterior. If you add more headroom and shorten the nose and trunk you could move up a classification while staying the same overall length.
Today my wife's Mazda 5 was parked next to the new Mini 4all. They were about the same height and length. That makes the new Mini the size of a small minivan. Not really that mini any more.
I laughed once when I parked my old Volvo 850 wagon next to a current Sentra. That previously big boxy wagon was shorter that the economy car.
Bigger!?! The thing is already a 3200lb. "compact".
My first thought here was that the 370z is smaller than the 350z it replaced. Haven't ever seen the two parked side by side, but the 370z seems like a 'small' car when I see them out on the road.
Are NC miatas really lighter than NB miatas? Didn't know that. They are larger though are they not?
I just read the linked article. So the 1 series is going to get larger - that is not surprising to me since that's what car makers all seem to do for the most part. The part that made me really read twice was where it said that this will be the last RWD 1 series as they are expected to shift to FWD in the future.
Uggh.
integraguy wrote: ".....going from the '73 to the '74 was replaced in all but name." And THAT'S the problem. When a car company produces a model that is successful, they feel they MUST hang on to the name, even when the following generations no longer stand for what the original car stood for. Notice that when a new car name surfaces, the car that was replaced had a really bad rep. Example? Cavalier to Cobalt to Cruse. Escort to Focus.
Fairmont to LTD to Taurus to five hundred, back to Taurus?
ditchdigger wrote: On the other hand if you think back to when the 1 series was introduced in the states and every comparison, even from GRM was that the extra size of the 3 series made it a better car. More stable, better handling. I
I have no doubt that BMW did that on purpose not to savage sales of the 3. Can't have the "baby bimmer" outhandling the 3er
There are examples everywhere. It's really easy to see in cars that have been around a long time.
1976 Honda Accord. Length - 162". Weight - approx 2000lbs.
2012 Honda Accord. Length: 194" - 2.5' bigger. Weight: 3300lbs.
The first gen Civic was around 140" long. The current model is 177" long, more than a foot bigger than the first Accord.
This is true with the Camry, Corolla, on and on...
sadly though, they are right. We do buy more when they get bigger.
I actually parked next to my first Fiat 500 yesterday. It looked pretty cool and was certainly smaller than my G35, but it was also almost a foot taller. Not sure why it is that tall, but it really did put me off lookling at it. Other than that, it was pretty cool.
Part of the small car problem is that they have to somehow survive the inevitable impact with soccor mom Excursions. If they are the size of an original Accord, no one wants to be in one looking up at Suzie soccor mom, her cell phone and 1 screaming child while she drives 20mph over the posted speed swerving in and out of lanes. Or trying to park it at the mall and banging into everything in sight.
We definitely have a vehicle size problem going on, and it's not that cars are too small. When many of the newer cars dwarf the old land barges of old, there's definitely a problem.
On the other hand, I've heard that back in the 1960s, my 16 foot long Dodge Dart was considered a small car with a small engine.
Seems kind of hard to believe, and I've often wondered what exactly the Dart nameplate would be on today if it had been kept around.
ditchdigger wrote: I am more worried about how ugly manufactures are trying to make cars. It is almost like they are doing it on purpose just to see if people will still buy them.
Amen!
agreed.. the 1er has NEVER been a good looking car. Sadly, we do not get the best looking example.. the 2 door hatch
jrw1621 wrote:iceracer wrote:The classifications like compact and sub-compact are done by interior volume size not exterior. If you add more headroom and shorten the nose and trunk you could move up a classification while staying the same overall length.iceracer wrote: Also the Escort was often rated at the top for reliability. Ford produced both the Escort and the Focus for app. two years in the US. So they needed a new name On subject. My ZX2SR was listed as a compact. My 2011 Fiesta has almost the same measuremnts and weight yet is listed as a sub-compact.
Yeah, I know but the Fiesta has 6" more headroom than my ZX2SR. Then rear seat leg room seems less.
MadScientistMatt wrote: On the other hand, I've heard that back in the 1960s, my 16 foot long Dodge Dart was considered a small car with a small engine.
It was when you consider my father's 57 Chrysler Saratoga was 20' long.
you do know that some municipalities... anything as long as that Saratoga cannot be parked on city streets overnight?
Scary to think, I have driven box trucks that a car that size would not fit into
T.J. wrote: Are NC miatas really lighter than NB miatas? Didn't know that. They are larger though are they not?
NB miatas got significantly heavier as they went on - the 99 is significantly lighter than the 05. NC miatae kind of kept the same trend of slightly increasing weight (the 06 NC is 50 lbs heavier than 05 NB). Also they got bigger by an inch or two in both dimensions.
So much better than most recent redesigns in terms of adding weight, particularly with all the accelerating regulations requiring more crash equipment, emissions equipment, etc, but it did gain weight.
MadScientistMatt wrote:KATYB wrote: since when did an escort have a bad name.... one of the best selling cars of all time.Are you from the UK by any chance? They got most of the good versions that never showed up in the US.
nope not from the uk. but have owned 3 of them. 2 of them being the most reliable cars ive ever owner the third would have been if i had left well enough alone but my tinkering got the best of me. my 89 went to 430k before the motor finally blew. and my 94 went to 250k before i sold it and that guy is still driving it. 93 well i decided that i wanted to change everything so klze pesky lsd that never worked right or broke. aluminum control arms and twin trap links that well at the time i was not really skilled enough to make. 5 lug conversion that again i shouldnt have done no real reason. messed with the brakes so much i dont think a single part including the hardlines were the same as stock. oh and the sheetmetal dash i never did get the hvac system to work properly.
I will grant that the Escort is/was a very reliable small car, beating everything GM "threw at it". Actually, it was the European arm of Ford that was behind the name change to Focus. The first (RWD) Escorts were almost legendary. Towards the end, the Escort morphed into THE dullest car you could buy. Yes, Europe got great models, while the U.S. just got stripe and badging specials, but even in Europe, the Escort was "overdone".
I was driving down I71 yesterday in cincinnati and came across one of these monstrosities. Not sure what it was, couldn't read the badge at first, I thought it was so big the "6" was an"8". Had to pass him on the right as he didn't move over. Didnt BMW used to make cool cars for enthusiasts instead of the lane blockers they make now?
So how will BMW designate their next small car, once the 1 reaches current 3 proportions? The 0.5? 
And I thought BMW acquired MINI to give themselves a FWD compact without tarnishing the BMW reputation of RWD (or AWD) performance. What is the point of a FWD 1, then? To compete with MINI? Like Pontiac competing with Oldsmobile? And look where both of those brands are now...
The new MINIs are most certainly not. I mistook the new 4-door Cooper for a generic CR-V sized SUV at first.
My 95 Tracer was boring - 1.9 automatic, admittedly - but really there was nothing wrong with that car that a manual transmission wouldn't have fixed. Aside from the auto tranny made of glass, the car was quite reliable. Boring, but reliable. If I'd known then what I know now, I would've held out for a Tracer LTS, if I'd insisted on the sedan (and I might've because I landed in a Mercury because of family connections with a Lincoln/Mercury dealer).
integraguy wrote: I will grant that the Escort is/was a very reliable small car, beating everything GM "threw at it". Actually, it was the European arm of Ford that was behind the name change to Focus. The first (RWD) Escorts were almost legendary. Towards the end, the Escort morphed into THE dullest car you could buy. Yes, Europe got great models, while the U.S. just got stripe and badging specials, but even in Europe, the Escort was "overdone".
I am going out on a limb to say that once the Escort started to get based on the Mazda.. it got very dull.. Friend of mine had one of the non-Mazda GTs.. that was a fun car with a rough and ready engine
mad machine that is out on a limb...... but the first gen gt's were a blast to drive however the handling left too much to be desired.... on the other hand. the mazda based gt's had handling joy in bunches and a 1.8 bp is one of the nicest 4 bangers around.
KATYB wrote: a 1.8 bp is one of the nicest 4 bangers around.
If it's good enough for a Miata, it's good enough for me.
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