In reply to Armitage:
Excellent post, just the kind of info I'm looking for! And thanks for the offer to drive, I may very well take you up on it some day. DC is well within striking distance for me and I've been wanting to get down there and run an auto x with DC region anyways.
I'm extremely DIY oriented with auto maintenance, so I'm not particularly concerned with the lack of competent mechanics aspect. I figure there has to be someone within 2-3 hours that could be the safety valve in case I ever get in over my head. Actually, my biggest concern with finding a mechanic would be for a PPI. Any recommendations in the DC area?
I'd plan to get the closest car to stock I could afford and leave it that way for the most part, at least in terms of power. Stock sequential twins for sure, as those are part of the appeal to me in the fd. Are there any tell tale signs of berkeleyery with the tuning that would be non-obvious to me? What kind of power can you safely make on the stock turbos, if I ever did want to turn up the wick a bit? Would a v mount radiator/IC setup be worth it for peace of mind on a stock car?
Any idea what your annual maintenance costs run? How about engine rebuild intervals at stock power level?
Thanks again for the info!
JtspellS wrote:
With the FE much like anything else buy the newest you can afford, my S2 has not given any issues, just be sure on any RENESIS keep up on the ignition coils and plugs.
Definitely suggest at least giving it a try.
I almost think the RX8 is the perfect counterpoint to the "buy the nicest you can afford" theory. Seems even a nice example still carries a fair amount of risk. There are a E36 M3 ton of early examples out there for CHEAP with blown up engines, and rebuilt motors can be had for a few grand. Seems you could buy a cheap one, swap it, and have a guaranteed low milage engine for less than a "nice" example. Am I crazy?
Furious_E wrote:
JtspellS wrote:
With the FE much like anything else buy the newest you can afford, my S2 has not given any issues, just be sure on any RENESIS keep up on the ignition coils and plugs.
Definitely suggest at least giving it a try.
I almost think the RX8 is the perfect counterpoint to the "buy the nicest you can afford" theory. Seems even a nice example still carries a fair amount of risk. There are a E36 M3 ton of early examples out there for CHEAP with blown up engines, and rebuilt motors can be had for a few grand. Seems you could buy a cheap one, swap it, and have a guaranteed low milage engine for less than a "nice" example. Am I crazy?
Cheap ones usually aren't limited to bad engines, they've often also got beat-up interiors, lousy paint, curbed wheels, blown shocks, deferred maintenance, stupid mods, etc.
If you can find an otherwise-good condition car with a dead motor then buying it and putting in a known-good rebuild isn't a bad idea.
The other part is the S2's have the better transmission and rear end gears and oiling systems as others have mentioned before, in summary anytime you look at any rotary you have to be willing to make a commitment that you will have to keep up with all the little things before it turns and bites you in the ass.
Also the biggest advantage to S2's are that they are the most expensive 8's out there so that generally keeps it out of more juvenile hands and generally more responsible owners.
All this chatter about FDs makes me want to swap the SR20 in my 240sx track car into one for a sexier track car even though the endeavor would just cost lots of money and I'd have a Frankenstein car. FDs are seriously lust worthy and the delicate motors and interior just kinda make them more appealing somehow. It's like a bad relationship that you can't escape? I'm sure if they had say, MKIV Supra interior and engine robustness, they would cost crazy money at this point.
turtl631 wrote:
All this chatter about FDs makes me want to swap the SR20 in my 240sx track car into one for a sexier track car even though the endeavor would just cost lots of money and I'd have a Frankenstein car. FDs are seriously lust worthy and the delicate motors and interior just kinda make them more appealing somehow. It's like a bad relationship that you can't escape? I'm sure if they had say, MKIV Supra interior and engine robustness, they would cost crazy money at this point.
Haha I think the bad relationship analogy is spot on. The fd is like dating the smoking hot, super high maintenance pornstar with serious daddy issues and a coke habit. You know it's a terrible idea, you know it's been beaten to hell and back, it will most likely ruin your life and suck your bank account dry...but hot damn, will it be one hell of a ride!
Furious_E wrote:
I'm extremely DIY oriented with auto maintenance, so I'm not particularly concerned with the lack of competent mechanics aspect. I figure there has to be someone within 2-3 hours that could be the safety valve in case I ever get in over my head. Actually, my biggest concern with finding a mechanic would be for a PPI. Any recommendations in the DC area?
Yea, I've never had a shop work on my car except for the occasional alignment, so it's totally do-able to maintain it yourself. There are some shops within 2-3 hours, but I don't know of much local. For a PPI you'd at least want a compression check. I imagine Mazda dealers must still have rotary compression testers since they deal with RX-8s all the time.
I'd plan to get the closest car to stock I could afford and leave it that way for the most part, at least in terms of power. Stock sequential twins for sure, as those are part of the appeal to me in the fd. Are there any tell tale signs of berkeleyery with the tuning that would be non-obvious to me?
The compression check should reveal if there's engine damage due to bad tuning. You can hear poor compression on a rotary when you try and start it up, and during hot starts especially. Boost pattern on stock sequentials should be 10-8-10, the dip is during the transition at around 4500 rpm. Look for things that are obviously missing, capped off, poorly returned to stock, etc. It'd be a good idea to bring along someone who knows these cars to spot modifications. Ask the owner if the car has ever overheated. Cooling seal issues may manifest themselves as disappearing coolant even if you don't see any smoke coming out the tailpipe and will require an engine rebuild. You can pop the fill cap on a cold engine and start it up and look for champagne bubbles or use a pressure tester. The car should start, idle, and rev smoothly and boost should follow the above pattern. Removal of some emissions controls on a stock ECU isn't ideal, although removal of the factory pre-cat is standard operating procedure and is fine.
What kind of power can you safely make on the stock turbos, if I ever did want to turn up the wick a bit? Would a v mount radiator/IC setup be worth it for peace of mind on a stock car?
With a reprogrammed stock ECU (Petit, M2) on stock turbos with upgraded intake, exhaust and intercooler they say about 320rwhp at 13psi. With a stand-alone you may be able to eek a bit more out at the expense of turbo longevity. Apparently the 270 degree thrust bearings are the achilles heel of the stock turbos and high boost. BNR produces a set of replacement twin turbos that can make 400+ hp but they're spendy and you'll need supporting mods. I think 350whp is the sweet spot with these cars. A lot more than that and you'll be better off at a drag strip than an AutoX or track day. At 2800lbs these things are no joke with that level of power.
As far as V-mount goes, it would certainly be of benefit over stock but probably unnecessary with factory boost levels. I've gotten by no problem with an upgraded Koyo radiator and eBay stock mount IC with proper ducting.
Any idea what your annual maintenance costs run? How about engine rebuild intervals at stock power level?
Not a lot, once the car is completely sorted. Getting to that point is the trick. Note that I'm not counting consumables of course. Over the winter I replaced the remaining original front control arm bushings ($150). The year before I went through all my original turbo control solenoids and replaced them all ($500 with Mazda Motorsports discount less money I recouped from selling 6 of the old ones that were still good). The year before that I replaced the original turbos ($500 + some gaskets, studs and nuts) after one gave up an oil seal at NJMP. At some point in the past I replaced the Mazda reman motor ($2k) after it suffered a minor coolant seal failure after a particularly hot weekend at VIR although I never saw the car overheat. I chalk that one up to a batch of bad factory remans (the car came with one when I bought it). Frequent oil changes are necessary on an FD that sees track time as fuel contaminates the motor oil. I also pre-mix synthetic rotary oil in the fuel in addition to the factory oil metering gear since I run 3mm apex seals in this motor.
