Instructor killed in wreck at Summit Point during hyperfest

motomoron wrote: They were doing "Hyperdrives" on the (recently lengthened) Jefferson circuit. The instructors were provided by BSR (Bill Scott Racing) the operators of Summit Point. Hyperdrive consists of a classroom session followed by an instructed 15 - 20 minute track session. As an instructor I've been wary of the Hyperdrive concept, particularly in the context of Hyperfest where your student may well have friends watching, or friends on track in the same session. In addition, with a first-time student the first session is line familiarization and learning to use the brakes. Trying to get up to speed in 15 minutes - safely? No way. Also - I heard reports of "spectators" lobbing cans of beer off the bridge are cars on track, during a race. I can absolutely guarantee if that was done to me that I'd pit, drive directly to the bridge, get out of the car and beat the living sh1t out of the mindless, mouth breathing quasi-Juggalo who'd thrown the can. I'm sure Hyperfest is fun for the target demographic (18-25 year old/tuner/wigger/dirtbag/drunk/idiots)but as a motorsports event it's a vortex of suck.

This, 100% this.

Hyperfest allows any mouth-breather with $50 and a semi-safe excuse for an automobile out on a crowded track with an instructor in the seat. You get a bunch of dingbat boy-racers out there who think their ability to quote The Fast and the Furious and Initial D makes them good drivers. I knew someone who was almost killed at Hyperfest years ago, and he was a professional driver.

I've known for years to steer clear of Hyperdrives. This should never have happened.

I quit in car instructing a long time ago in favor of the SCCA method of instructors at each corner. In reply to Sky_Render:

It is interesting that this happened right after 24 Hours of Lemons decided not to run at Summit Point any more. My understanding was they stopped running there due to safety concerns.

In reply to skrzastek: Do you mean turn 10?

mistanfo wrote: In reply to skrzastek: Do you mean turn 10?

He said he passed start/finish so turn one would be correct - assuming he saw the red hung at S/F and proceeded to the next visible flagger for more info.

It turns out the Probe driver is someone I met at the Dragon Hillclimb, he was driving the electric Formula Ford that's been making the rounds. My best wishes for his full recovery.

I am nowhere near an open track instructor. Frankly after this incident, the instructor dying at CMP last year and another friend of mine hitting a tree 15 feet off the ground I am not so sure I want to instruct.

dculberson wrote: It is interesting that this happened right after 24 Hours of Lemons decided not to run at Summit Point any more. My understanding was they stopped running there due to safety concerns.

That's interesting to hear. I drove in Lemons at Summit last year and frankly thought that Shenandoah was a pretty damn safe track. The only major damage I saw was one car had a deer jump into the windshield (every race at Summit seems to involve an impact with some kind of animal, it seems), and a 2002 came off the top of the carousel and went into the barrier (car a total loss, driver had no injuries).

That was my first wheel-to-wheel racing and while I'm a fairly cautious driver compared to my (younger) teammates who own the car, that track never struck me as having any areas that I thought "whoa, this could be dangerous if I go off." I saw a lot more big wrecks in other races at VIR and Beaverrun/PIR, and felt less comfortable on those tracks myself, to be honest (though I immensely enjoyed all of them).

I was thinking Lemons might have left Summit since Shenandoah is a pretty tight track for 120+ cars at once, but IDK. We're running there in 2 weeks for Chump, but IDK whether the field is that large.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

mistanfo wrote: In reply to skrzastek: Do you mean turn 10?

He said he passed start/finish so turn one would be correct - assuming he saw the red hung at S/F and proceeded to the next visible flagger for more info.

Correct turn 1 is where I stopped. I can the can drop right before I went under the bridge before 10, swerved out of the way, looked in my mirror and saw the 2 cars, then a huge dust cloud, went through 10 and just as I passed the checker at start/finish he was pulling out the red flag. I coasted down the track until I could clearly see the worker in turn 1.

racer99 wrote: I just happened to be that corner worker.In reply to skrzastek:

Thanks for offering water to us. Had it been any long we would of taken you up on it!

Hopefully next year at Hyperfest they will not be allowing spectators to cross the bridge at all that weekend (which is too bad for the people who like to camp in the infield, but driver safety is way to important). They proved they can't handle it. I know there are several of us who won't be back unless that happens......

*keep in mind this is just the Hyperfest crowd, every other time I've been to SPR it's been great. It's my favorite track to race on

Or they could just post a security person on the bridge and not allow anyone to loiter there to watch the cars.

Nobody is supposed to be on the bridge anyway. They just need to station someone there to prevent it.

Summit Main I have no problems with. I instruct there and, while there are places and ways you can get hurt, it's a track of reasonable risks. I've never been on Shenandoah; it's just never worked out for me somehow. I liked driving on Jefferson, but it doesn't offer the protection/runoff of the other two tracks. Jefferson was built as a 'training' track IIRC, so wasn't really intended for racing, though I know they have held races on it.

This is horribly unfortunate. That it was Summit Point staff and not NASA people makes it even more baffling.

As for Hyperfest...I've only raced there once during that weekend, and don't feel the 'activities' that it brings are anything but a negative. It's nice having actual spectators in the stands while you're racing, but after the green drops, I don't notice them anymore.

The Hyperdrive thing doesn't particularly bother me either. I will rein in a driver more harshly during one of those if they exhibit any F&F influences during the first lap, and have promised myself never to get in a car I don't like the looks of. Still, you never can tell. I love the sport, and I love teaching. I manage the risks as best as I can.

BMW CCA parks the guard jeep in the road on the bridge during the races and moves after so people can cross.

We camp in the paddock - bonfires and all - and people walk/drive/bike around/over the bridge all the time but during actual racing (not DE) there is always a no hanging out on the bridge rule enforced. It's laid back - because the expectation is that no one is retarded enough to do something malicious. It's more like preventing an accident where someone falls.

Its just a damn shame, my condolences go out to all who were affected by this loss.

Doing the hyperdrive once in my early days it can be a bit of a E36 M3 show, and i will say as a party hyperfest is downright insane! But there is always a very large disconnect between hyperdrives/NASA/drift/car show douches but some how always worked well.

No doubt there will be massive changes in the up coming years even if this will still be around.

irish44j wrote:

dculberson wrote: It is interesting that this happened right after 24 Hours of Lemons decided not to run at Summit Point any more. My understanding was they stopped running there due to safety concerns.

That's interesting to hear. I drove in Lemons at Summit last year and frankly thought that Shenandoah was a pretty damn safe track. The only major damage I saw was one car had a deer jump into the windshield (every race at Summit seems to involve an impact with some kind of animal, it seems), and a 2002 came off the top of the carousel and went into the barrier (car a total loss, driver had no injuries).

Shenandoah is a fun, tight track, but it has a number of exposed concrete walls in dangerous spots and the wildlife issue. I've run in every Lemons race at Summit and seen some pretty serious accidents. 2012 had the Ikea Volvo that hit the exposed concrete barrier on the back straight, it was going pretty fast and it absolutely destroyed that car. I was only a second or two behind the car and it made me question my involvement in racing. I had to dodge suspension parts to get off the track. Fortunately the driver had only a broken leg or ankle to show for it - otherwise he was okay.

I decided that the risk was worth it to me but I only halfway miss Summit Point. It's a fun track but feels more dangerous to me than most of the other tracks I've run on with Lemons. (Nelson's Ledges felt much more dangerous!)

In reply to dculberson:

I've been driving and racing at Summit since '99. The Main track is my 2nd most favorite track in the greater east (Mid-Ohio wins) for it's challenging and unforgiving nature. You have got to have your E36 M3 together to race it well. Like the Glen. Like Mid-Ohio. Like Nelson. Big brass ones and commitment are key factors in being fast - it is tremendously exciting and rewarding to bring it at Summit. A lot of cars have gone to car heaven by making mistakes there but the Main track has plenty of runoff for experienced drivers who plan an escape route. It is not really a high volume source of dead and maimed people.

This happened on the Jefferson Circuit - which certainly has trees as a barrier where a few well placed tire walls should be but until recently is was not a very fast layout. Only a few clubs race on it - it's mainly used for instruction because it features some very, very difficult corners and almost no straights to get ballin'. There is not a lot of macabre associated with it at all. Top speeds were in the 80s for most cars. However, the new section up top makes the downhill lefts in either direction serious considerations (new for this year). I'm not sure if that was a factor in this case but even if it was...

This is a rare and very unfortunate occurrence. People do not routinely die at Summit Point. People do not routinely die or even get seriously injured at track days or club races. It is always a possibility, sure. I could fall down my stairs and break my neck tonight but I probably won't.

There is no need for anything to happen here except to express sympathy to family of the man or woman who was unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time. RIP.

http://www.your4state.com/story/d/story/deputies-release-identities-involved-in-fatal-cras/22505/E1ISa3iYBE-k0_5mfp9cAQ

This thread has a lot of level-headed-ness and pragmatism in it. I've seen a lot of threads on this basic topic on GRM forums and this one is above average.

In reply to ddavidv:

Most tracks I've seen or noticed on tv have sponsor billboards on the sides of the bridge to keep people from loitering there and also make it as difficult as possible to get anything onto the racing surface.

I've not ever been to this track so I'm not familiar with the details of the bridge. But seeing how the pedestrian walkways at the long beach circuit and the bridges at road america are seems like a no brainer, sell ad space and keep flat billed hat wearing hoodlums from endangering the participants.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: http://www.your4state.com/story/d/story/deputies-release-identities-involved-in-fatal-cras/22505/E1ISa3iYBE-k0_5mfp9cAQ

Damn, that poor fellow never stood a chance.

Saw that picture last night, that car damn near folded in 1/2.

Summit does have about an 8 foot tall fence on either side of the bridge ribbed with something like vinyl blinds placed horizontally so you can't get a good view/picture. They also have a security guard on one side but he mostly keeps unauthorized cars from driving into the paddock. I would say they need someone there full time for hyperfest. It gets a bit wild there and I think they'll prob crack down next year.

one thing that I haven't seen addressed, and I don't likely think was a contributing factor, but would hope was done, is a blood test on the driver immediately after the incident. It was late afternoon/early evening and alcohol and drugs are known to be part of hyperfest. I hope that it wasn't the case, but hope the due diligence was taken in testing.

I've always shied away from any involvement with the hyperdrive portions of hyperfest due to the lack of tech inspection and readiness of most cars which only casually see the track one day a year. On top of not having cages and harnesses, tire condition, brake pad and fluid condition as well as suspension system components are all something that are unknowns and not worth the risk in my mind. NASA, the SCCA and other club organizations offer plenty of other cost effective options for getting on track in a less congested, more controlled environment.

to me the real story is how easy it is to hit a tree on the Jefferson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITdNrBLsR0w (filmed apparently the same event)

Look how little barrier protection there is!

People can and will lose control on a track. Accidents will happen. I really think the tree thing is the lowest hanging safety fruit here.

What I mean is, the other measures with instructors and participants is about limiting the number of incidents, there will still be incidents where cars leave the track no matter what you do. Cars break, drivers screw up, limiting these occurrences does need to happen. Its just not something that will ever be completely eliminated.

(side note, yeah, whoever is throwing stuff onto a hot track should be forcibly ejected from the event as a minimum)

In reply to Apexcarver:

I was at Summit Point the weekend this happened. Although I will admit I only heard the rumor of an instructor death on Sunday. It was like a whisper around the paddock that I refused to believe.

I have been running in HPDE 3 for almost 3 years now. There seems to be a natural progression at this point. Either go racing…or become an instructor…

Hell, my 370Z doesn’t fit into any class anyway. And I just heard that we are a man down…

I guess I have to sign up for the July 18th NASA instructor clinic.

I made the leap to instructing a couple years ago (got my racing license, found out how expensive that was, liked teaching anyway). I found the following thread on Bimmerforums while I was considering becoming an instructor. I think it gives a good idea of what generally happens/can happen so you don't go into it blindly. Some stories are funny; some scary. NASA does try to keep you instructing in the same basic kind of car that you drive (I get 3 series BMWs of varying power levels and the occasional Miata). Still early in my instructing career, I wouldn't want to be assigned to a twin turbo Corvette or Mitsu Evo. This keeps me comfortable as an instructor and also allows me to relate better to the student. My lead instructor guy takes his job pretty seriously and if someone isn't feeling good about a pairing, he'll change it. Hyperdrives you can kind of pick the car you want to get into if you're on the grid early, but there is all kinds of hardware and unknown talent to be had so extra caution is required as soon as you exit pit lane. I find instructing incredibly rewarding; others try it and just can't be comfortable in the right seat. It's not for everyone. Bimmerforums Instructor Stories