Kia Soul, worst traction control ever!

I remember driving an X5 when they were just introduced at a BMW-sponsored winter "autox" (just a simple snow course, no timing, multiple people in the car) at the Meadowlands. The TC was hopeless, cutting power and causing the thing to just understeer into the nearest snow bank. When I finally convinced the BMW minder to let me turn it off things got a lot better.

My 128i has three modes: full on, which as z31maniac mentioned is pretty transparent on good surfaces, but too much for slick ones; an intermediate mode (single button press) that allows some slip and wheelspin; and full off (button hold). It also has an eLSD that seems to work surprisingly well on the street (can't speak to track use, but I would guess it's not ideal).

I remember driving a 2013 Chevy 1500 and it still letting me spin the tires coming out of a curve in the rain on bald snow tires while the traction control light flashed. The 2011 Crosstour will however just shut you down, but if you lift and ease back into the throttle it will resume forward motion without an unreasonably long wait time.  

The other “safety” feature I despise is how many cars will cut power when both pedals are simultaneously pushed.  

I think that these things could cause more accidents than they prevent. 

Hy/Kia's first gen TCS is horrific. On my 10 Forte, with a manual trans, it would literally kill the car in snow or ice. Useless. 

Well I have learned just how sheltered my automotive life is.  I had no idea that this was an actual method of TSC. 

I bought my last new car in 2006, the 03 and 01 VW's before it all modulated the brakes, as did the Audis.  They were great in the snow too.

Jumper K Balls said:

MrChaos said:

yea on a number of cars the traction control just cuts all throttle

 

No wonder people hate traction control. I am so used to the BMW and VW versions that I just left it on. It was actually helpful.

If you're ready for it...just recently I took a corner quickly in my mom's 116i, being a slushbox there was a little jolt of power when I went back on the gas and the back started to step out, so I countersteered - at the same moment the traction control grabbed the brakes on the outside rear wheel so I had to take that countersteer out real quick! There's a button to "turn it off" but it really just dials it way back. I've autocrossed it with the traction control "off" and it works well enough.

In reply to Jumper K Balls :

I can say that the automatic Forte the wife has is MUCH better than the manual I had before. Granted, there's a generation gap between the two, but its much better suited to the auto than the manual. 

In reply to GameboyRMH :

That's most of my issue with traction control.  If it's well designed, it works fine.  But often, there's a conflict between what the driver is doing and what the car is doing while both are trying to fix the same problem (given a good driver) and that can get messy.  

Yep, the Rondo has the same affliction - the slightest slip will leave you dead in the road for 5 seconds watching traffic rapidly approach as you sweat and swear.  

In reply to Jumper K Balls :

I can say that the automatic Forte the wife has is MUCH better than the manual I had before. Granted, there's a generation gap between the two, but its much better suited to the auto than the manual. 

My '13 Leaf did the massive power cut thing. Absolutely infuriating. And with all that torque, it was pretty easy to invoke it, especially in the damp.

This is something I need to figure out in our new Sedona. 

Generally I don't hate the nannies--ESC is great, traction control is a good thing for the masses and really it likely saves lives, but the power cut is infuriating. Especially in the snow where you often need to spin the tires to move at all.

My Cousins work Transit Connect does the same thing.

Was wonderful when we hit a patch of ice and ended up in a snow filled ditch. Luckily we live in an area where tractors and trucks with chains in them are a year round thing.

My moms T&C has a traction control that works just enough to keep the tires from spinning when it's dry. Any other time it doesn't care, and my truck solved the issue by not having enough power to break both tires loose at the same time.

How useful traction control is depends heavily on how it's implemented. In the past year, I've had my first experiences with TC in very different forms. Our 2012 Volt has the aggressive power cut traction control that's both dangerous and useless. The only way I can get out of my driveway in slippery conditions is to turn it off, otherwise the car simply stops. With the TC off, the car claws it's way out very well, just as you'd expect from a FWD car with good Michelin X-Ice 3's on it. It's as if the programmers have been told that any wheelspin will instantly result in the colossal fireball of death, killing everyone for miles around.

In contrast, my 2017 Tundra has the "electronic limited slip diff" (BS marketing name, if ever there was one). It works astonishingly well. On very pavement oriented all seasons, it simply claws its way out, clattering away. I was skeptical at first, but it just plain works. I can get the Tundra out (in 4WD) on all seasons with no problem, when the Volt (on good snows) can't get 1/4 of the way up the hill with the TC on. And, of course, the Volt TC defaults to on at every opportunity. If I could permanently disable it, I would.

jfryjfry said:

The other “safety” feature I despise is how many cars will cut power when both pedals are simultaneously pushed.  

I think that these things could cause more accidents than they prevent. 

Under what circumstances is this a problem for you?

I have no complaints of the TC on my '13 Fiesta.  It will show for a short time then shuts off when the tires gain traction.  No noticeable loss of power.

I did suffer complete loss of power once. The hill by my house was covered with grease like slush.  Then I went down to the bottom and turned the TC off.   I still couldn't make to the top but I could spin the wheels.

I even experimented on an ice race track.  Full throttle starts with TC on and off. Wheels spin until tires gain traction.   No real difference.    Of course this was with Blizzaks.

6 upstate NY winters and this has been my experience.   I understand this has not been the case for some.

MrChaos said:

off the top of my head the Prius, Sonic, Fiat 500 all just cut throttle

Yep my Sonic cuts the throttle. I was stuck in snow one time and it cut the throttle so bad the engine died. Even with the TCS "off" it still has a nanny mode and won't let you power (lol) your way out. I just pull the fuse now.

APEowner said:

jfryjfry said:

The other “safety” feature I despise is how many cars will cut power when both pedals are simultaneously pushed.  

I think that these things could cause more accidents than they prevent. 

Under what circumstances is this a problem for you?

Braking into a corner while doing a heel/toe downshift.

TC off has been part of my startup procedure on every car that has been equipped with it. My FR-S is bad, my E36 was worse, but the 4th gen Camaro took the cake for annoying TC - not only would it aggressively chop all power, but the gas pedal would push back at your foot, so you get this really weird and super annoying tactile sensation. At least the E36 and Crammit could be fully defeated with a simple button press. Having to do the stupid "peddle dance" to shut the Scion (Subaru) nannies all the way off is super annoying.

My father's Mazda 3 has the traction control well tuned. When pulling out into traffic from a side street or intersection it allows just the right amount of wheelspin. My brother's RX-8 is the same, but once snow is on the ground it's better to turn off traction control. 

My wife's 2010 Corolla does the infuriating full power cut and wait. My 2013 Honda Fit will do the cut and wait as well. Interestingly with snow tires it does better with the traction control on in the snow. TC turned off it just spins the tire closest to the transmission endlessly. 

In reply to APEowner :

A little Left foot braking when driving somewhat aggressively does it

taking off from a stop and my left foot is the slightest bit behind getting on the gas....

If my left foot happens to move the brake pedal even slightly, it doesn’t apply brakes but does illuminate the brake light (which isn’t good but better than what it does:) which causes it to cut power  

what happens is it moves and then kills power for a second or more even once you get off of the brake.  Pumping the accelerator sometimes helps.  

It definitely has made me better about not having unnecessary overlap or putting inadvertent pressure on the brake. But the consequence is dangerous. 

Professionally it rears its head when I’m tracking with another vehicle (picture car, camera car, etc) and two-foot driving is the best technique to do it.  Double pumping the throttle while keeping the brake slightly pushed often defeats it. 

But the original issue is also, imho, a major safety issue for reasons described. 

My 2011 Colorado 2wd does the annoying power cut thing. Super frustrating when traveling across the gravel road and the recently took the grader down. All the soft loose gravel on top and it causes the TC to kick in and I start slowly loosing speed because it's pulling power. Thankfully it has only left me dead on the road when trying to move from a dead stop...

Turboeric said:

 It's as if the programmers have been told that any wheelspin will instantly result in the colossal fireball of death, killing everyone for miles around.

 

This.  The basics of traction control are the same throughout the industry, as far as I know.    It is the programming that makes it work, or not.

snailmont5oh said:

I like the '14 Impala version of traction control in the snow: spin right tire, lock brake; spin left tire, lock brake; repeat; go

nowhere;

That was the way TC worked in my 2010 Transit connect.  Except that there was no switch to turn it off.  Now iI drive a Subaru!

Turboeric said:

APEowner said:

jfryjfry said:

The other “safety” feature I despise is how many cars will cut power when both pedals are simultaneously pushed.  

I think that these things could cause more accidents than they prevent. 

Under what circumstances is this a problem for you?

Braking into a corner while doing a heel/toe downshift.

That would be an issue.  Are there any manual transmission cars that have that issue?  I haven't run across it yet.