Learn me flat towing!

FYI, the XJ does not have any sort of wobble but it does have a clutch LSD in the rear.

At $333 to rent, the U-Haul dolly is the least expensive option. Driving both over the passes is certainly a plausible scenario and I can see the appeal.

In reply to bmw88rider :

An RV is nothing like a Grand Cherokee.   I've ridden in Gand Cherokees flat towing other Jeeps.   It is far from enjoyable.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

If you have never flat towed the XJ, you don't know how it is going to react while it is flat towed.  There are completely different dynamics involved.

My neighbor never had any issues driving his CJ5 at any speed it was capable of going.    Once he hooked a tow bar up to it, he couldn't pull it over 45 MpH without it shaking the back of his tow vehicle like a rag doll.  

Dolly, hands down. 

Knurled. said:

I've seen people flat towing lifted CJ7s across the country with other lifted CJs.  The transfer case should be fine in neutral.

Any Jeep CJ with a Quadratrac (76-79) or Dana 300 (80-86) transfer case should NOT be flat towed without pulling the rear driveshaft. There are ways to modify them so it gets lube, but it's much easier to pull the shaft.

The only answer not offered yet is to trailer it to Ottawa, and then find something else to bring home on the trailer.

Just trying to help out and be the good enabler we all tend to be around here

I've flat towed a couple thousand miles now (i.e. one challenge trip and a few local ones).  In my opinion it's mostly better than dolley towing (which i've done a LOT of) other than the braking thing, and the only difference there is you can get a dolley with brakes. If you have a dolley without brakes like I do, then you're better off flat towing because it weighs less and has one less point of articulation and a whole bunch less failure points (straps, bolts holding the dolley together etc).

This is idle banter and not a recommendation but it would be sort of neat to put a surge brake cylinder in a tow bar and have it tie into the towed vehicle's hydraulic brakes with some kind of clean-break hydraulic fitting. A little pie in the sky maybe. The existing setups are better, they just cost a fair bit. Funnier idea: strap a 30 lb lead brick to the brake pedal. Surge brakes! 

  I usually tow fairly light vehicles across flat-ish states but your scenario makes me think investing in some kind of braking setup is probably worthwhile.  Something else i've done before when i was towing with an 'experimental' or as yet unproven setup was go do some brake stabs at progressively higher speeds very near my house until i felt good about things. 

Limon to Detroit is $218 for a dolly. Saves you $100+ and keeps you guys together for the longest and easiest sections. Just another thought. 

I have flat towed from Chicago to the challenge at least 3 times. I don't think you'll die in a fire. 

I strongly prefer flat towing to dolly towing.

Some states require the towed vehicle to have plates but sounds like that's not an issue.

Just duct tape a big brick to the brake pedal on the toad and then you have surge brakes (haha).

stafford1500 said:

The only answer not offered yet is to trailer it to Ottawa, and then find something else to bring home on the trailer.

Just trying to help out and be the good enabler we all tend to be around here

Now that's the true GRM answer!

I actually have access to a tow dolly I can borrow. Not for this trip because it would be one-way, but at least I could hook up the Jeeps and see how it feels.

I see a Japan-spec '93 Supra with a hot engine in Montreal...only $35K

Do you really love both of these jeeps enough to justify the effort and expense of hauling both of them across the country? 

Maybe I missed  where you're from and where you're going, and brining a rust free example to the snow belt or something might be lucrative, and worth while, but if its the opposite, just sell it and buy another. 

Shipping might be another option not mentioned. More cost upfront but, if you factor in fuel economy towing vs not, as well as rental prices, maybe time and hastle  saved makes it a viable option. 

Which vehicle is staying on Ottawa? Is it feasable to drive that one there and take a plane (or rent a car) to get back?

Both are moving to Ottawa. One is the XJ I built for a friend, so it's not just some random Jeep. Part of the deal with that car was that Eric had to come out here and go wheeling with me, I wouldn't let it just get shipped "home". So he has to come out here anyhow! The other is the WJ that I just replaced with a Tesla. Eric is looking for a good daily and a rust free, single owner, documented and fully depreciated WJ is appealing to him. You can't buy that vehicle in Ottawa for any money.

It's worth noting that Eric has all the frequent flyer miles, so him getting to Grand Junction and me getting home are free. Had we planned this properly, the Miata 338 retrieval trip would have been part of this. But the WJ idea just came up and we were still working out the XJ details, whereas I had some time constraints on the Miata trip.

Shipping is fairly expensive. The idea here is that it should be less expensive to drag one Jeep with the other instead of shipping one or both. And more fun. 

It's a good plan, then. I hope you can make it work.

I guess I would probably worry about there only being 700 lbs difference between the tow vehicle and the towed vehicle. It could result in one of those situations where "is it the dog wagging the tail or the tail wagging the dog" . I think it would be rather dangerous towing four down with no brakes on the towed vehicle and probably illegal in some of the states you might pass through. Towing a trailer and car combination that weighs more then the tow vehicle is also problematic. Renting a tow dolly is probably the best answer. At least you will have brakes (surge or electric) on the dolly. If I used the tow dolly I'd probably invest in a cheap rear view camera (eBay has numerous under $50) to mount on the tow vehicle facing the towed vehicle to keep an eye on what's going on back there. With that combination of vehicles using trailer, dolly or four down it's going to be a long trip!

Luckily, the WJ was equipped with a shiny piece of glass in the middle of the windshield and a transparent rear window, so it's possible to keep an eye on a towed vehicle without a camera :) One of Janel's coworkers asked her how she could back up without a camera. He was serious, he really didn't understand.

Having the towed vehicle outweigh the towing vehicle isn't necessarily the kiss of death. I have thousands of miles of towing a 12,000 lb trailer with an 8,000 lb truck and it is completely stable and comfortable even in crosswinds that are blowing over semis.

Keith Tanner said:

Luckily, the WJ was equipped with a shiny piece of glass in the middle of the windshield and a transparent rear window, so it's possible to keep an eye on a towed vehicle without a camera :) One of Janel's coworkers asked her how she could back up without a camera. He was serious, he really didn't understand.

Having the towed vehicle outweigh the towing vehicle isn't necessarily the kiss of death. I have thousands of miles of towing a 12,000 lb trailer with an 8,000 lb truck and it is completely stable and comfortable even in crosswinds that are blowing over semis.

Have you driven a modern crossover SUV?  Rear visiblity is almost as bad as a Countach...

I have no experience with tow dollies except to comment that I watched someone try to back up once.  Don't do it, it doesn't work. :)  I also helped a friend hook up one of those wireless "push the brake pedal" boxes in a Subaru for an RV toad once -- looked like a total Rube Goldberg contraption, but it did work.

Keith Tanner said:

U-Haul will rent a dolly for $333 one-way. So it's a possibility. I'm not sure why it would be more stable, but it's an option.

Does that include going across the border ?

No, that's dropping it in Ogdensburg, NY. Less than an hour from Ottawa and with a border crossing that can handle vehicle importation.

Glad to hear your friend is taking the WJ. The last time I made a joke on here about car on here to you it cost me 40K :) 

State laws may require brakes for flat tows (check), but realistically you do not. In the US you only have to follow the towing laws of the state you're originating from - not the ones you're in (for non commercial) I doubt they'd bat an eye at an unbraked flat tow of a car to car. My dad just flat towed an unbraked zx2 with an auto CR-V (and with a hitch system we cobbled together with spare steel) and was just fine - technically over weight for the car. Check the trans/diff as mentioned. Tow Dolly's are always easier though, the uhaul tow dollies are super easy to hook up to and have a floating platform. They're fairly heavy though (700lbs) and do not have surge brakes. Still nearly impossible to back up, but nbd. My tow dolly has surge brakes but no floating platform (so the steering has to be unlocked, etc), I towed with a cx-5 and it doesn't feel like its back there. US tow specs are notoriusly low, just use your head - I've towed my Exocet with my Mazdaspeed 3 and it was more than fine...

Any specific questions? The best information is on the RV forums. I have a braking blue ox hitch (the kind that applies the brake by pulling the pedal with a cable) if you want to wire it to your brake pedal. Cost of shipping if you want it.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Have you investigated what Canada requires, or for that matter what U-Haul's rules are for crossing the border? Or even using a tow dolly that's not registered in your name?

You wouldn't want to get all the way to the wall, only to have to turn around and go back.

I've never flat-towed, so can't comment on that, but I built tow dolly and it works great on the highway.   Not being able to backup is an issue, but for a long haul it is a good option. 

Seems to me best is just drive them.  time to talk when overnighting, or heck can use walkie talkies and talk while driving too.

stafford1500 said:

The only answer not offered yet is to trailer it to Ottawa, and then find something else to bring home on the trailer.

Just trying to help out and be the good enabler we all tend to be around here

Buy an inexpensive trailer in decent shape, tow it out there with the XJ on it, let Eric sell teh trailer Ottawa. Basic car-hauler trailers hold their value and probably would be easy to sell a good-condition one in the rust zone in a week. Even if you sell it for a bit less than it's worth, that's what you'd spend on the dolly anyhow. Hell, maybe you could break even or make a profit! 

Having owned an XJ, I'd have no interest in either driving it anywhere near that distance nor flat-towing it.