Learn me: off-road shenanigans on a shoestring budget

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Yeah I hear ya. I'm not really going to lift it though. Just stock oem shocks, snow tires and done. Almost considered a circle track car. Not sure I could get it insured though. 

Keith Tanner said:

You want a Gambler car. I'd check out that community. 

I use the same tools on my Cherokee that I do on anything else. 

Yeah a post gambler car is what I'm thinking. Already trashed, zero remorse. 

My 220,000 mile corolla does alright..little lift some bigger tires and a skid plate

In reply to Jeff Shaffer :

This is on target. 

The de facto gambler car is a Corolla so that's probably your answer. Old volvo 240s are pretty tank-like too, with decent suspension travel. Not sure how pricey they are in your area though. They're a little nuts here in the PNW thanks to the hipster tax.

In reply to thatsnowinnebago :

I started looking at 740's they dont pay the hipster tax and lifted 740 wagons look bitchen 

Older Half ton truck + 33" tires and go have fun.

Weld the rear diff is a quick and cheap upgrade. If feeling fancy a fabricated 4 link rear would help articulation.

I also recommend the show Dirt Every Day on Motortrend. They do a lot of builds, most all on a budget, and even have done a few cheap truck challenges between friends.

itsarebuild said:

if the point is to be contrary maybe a Citroen?

That idea has some serious potential.

I wouldn't cross a minitruck or mini-SUV off the list if your concern is needing special tools for maintenance; they're typically not any harder to work on than a car of similar vintage, and the north-south engine layout generally means decent room in the engine compartment. Some "dark horse" options that may be cheaper because fewer people cut them up to make rock crawlers would include the first generation Kia Sportage (surprise, it's a pretty capable body on frame design!) and the Range Rover.

But if you want something more carlike, there are some crossover SUVs that will work OK - Honda CRV, Toyota RAV4, later Kia Sportages, Ford Escape / Mazda Tribute come to mind.

I understand the wanting to stay away from fullsize trucks/suvs, heck even mid size for their weight/size but tools wise its all the same from mid size down to cars. My 1 ton diesel 4x4 does need some consideration when going to pick it up or pop parts loose. Chevy/Geo Tracker or Suzuki Samurai are probably the best *light* "offroad" vehicles. I would put transmissions in by hand, carry engines around etc. on my Samurai's and once in a blue moon they come up reasonably priced. 10mm-19mm sockets for basically everything except front spindle nuts.

The best *cheap* offroad rigs are probably going to land on Ranger, XJ, Explorer, Mountaineer, Rodeo, Passport, S10 etc. Solid 4x4s to explore trails.

If all you want to do is gravel and flat dry dirt then sure, any car can do that, Focus, Miata, Fox Body Mustang... 

Also will 2nd the Kia Sportage idea, some were body on frame and the rear axle is stout. ECU is under the passenger seat... which doesn't help when stuck in deep wateroops. Having had cars out on muddy days where they shouldn't be... not an enjoyable day. Real 4wd, ground clearance and low range are key on a real trail and tires make all the difference. 

Cchambers13 said:

I understand the wanting to stay away from fullsize trucks/suvs, heck even mid size for their weight/size but tools wise its all the same from mid size down to cars. My 1 ton diesel 4x4 does need some consideration when going to pick it up or pop parts loose. Chevy/Geo Tracker or Suzuki Samurai are probably the best *light* "offroad" vehicles. I would put transmissions in by hand, carry engines around etc. on my Samurai's and once in a blue moon they come up reasonably priced. 10mm-19mm sockets for basically everything except front spindle nuts.

The best *cheap* offroad rigs are probably going to land on Ranger, XJ, Explorer, Mountaineer, Rodeo, Passport, S10 etc. Solid 4x4s to explore trails.

If all you want to do is gravel and flat dry dirt then sure, any car can do that, Focus, Miata, Fox Body Mustang... 

Also will 2nd the Kia Sportage idea, some were body on frame and the rear axle is stout. ECU is under the passenger seat... which doesn't help when stuck in deep wateroops. Having had cars out on muddy days where they shouldn't be... not an enjoyable day. Real 4wd, ground clearance and low range are key on a real trail and tires make all the difference. 

I'll add sportage to the list I suppose. I wa ted to stay away from trucks in general because it's a rabbit hole. Lift, tires, winch, roll bar, lights, etc. it never ends. 
with a nimble, rally-esc car, the temptation to mod is removed and it stays a cheap, backroad slideways fun having machine. 

XJ jeep

No ones mentioned a bug?

In reply to Vajingo :

Actually, Cherokees are really just tall station wagons. Unibody, front engine, RWD...

Park a lowered Cherokee next to a lifted Volvo wagon see if anyone can tell the difference.

I've owned my '97 XJ for over 20 years, now it's just taking up space in my shop. Anybody want to buy it?

Depends on what you are doing. For exploring, I vote XJ as well. They are still out there for cheap but you will have to look for it and snap it up quick. 

My son paid $1200 for this one. He added a set of cheap tires, a $100 lift, replaced a bent tie rod and a leaking oil pan gasket. He's probably into to it for $2k. 

You want better handling and speed, I'd go P71. I will add that a P71 on snow tires is surprisingly capable of getting places as well. Bulletproof handles well off and on-road. Plenty of mud and dirt slinging fun. 

In reply to Vajingo :

Yugo

It sounds like you want a rallycross car more than an 'off road' vehicle.

Subaru.

If you want 2wd, look for something with a decent diff.  One of the cheaper options is a Sentra SpecV.

After doing a few Gambler 500 events I've seen people having fun offroad with just about anything. Pick any car you like that fits your mechanical experience and budget. Lift it a bit, add a skid plate, and put on good tires. Putting on appropriate tires and making them fit are 90% of the work to transform an average car for offroad.

Class 11 a.k.a. "Stock Bug" VW. My C11 is street legal and has been raced complete with license plate. As the name "Stock Bug" suggests they are mostly stock. The biggest expenses are safety equipment (cage etc), and race entry fees. I could get more detailed if you wish.

Just go down to the bank, take out a second mortgage on your house and buy a new Bronco. You know you want one. 

The dark horse is: Loyal. If I could find a cheap,  relatively cheap one, I'd be in this like flies on E36 M3. No, this is not a truck chassis based trar.

I just want to point out the positives of having an offroad corolla

I had a guy yell "thats hot" checking out my corolla at an intersection this morning...felt weird but I kind of liked it 

Also seems like daily a rally looking subaru wants to race me on the freeway. I just laugh and let them pull away because my crap box is slow but I know it has seen some stuff their car never will.

ProDarwin said:

It sounds like you want a rallycross car more than an 'off road' vehicle.

Subaru.

If you want 2wd, look for something with a decent diff.  One of the cheaper options is a Sentra SpecV.

This is correct. I didn't label this post accurately enough. "Off road" means a lot of things. Yes. Car chassis. Any wheel drive. And cheap. For the keep guys, I hate to tell you, but here in the pnw jeeps and subies are overpriced. Same with 4x4's.  
 

meanwhile, I can get a 220k 'rolla for about $800

L5wolvesf said:

Class 11 a.k.a. "Stock Bug" VW. My C11 is street legal and has been raced complete with license plate. As the name "Stock Bug" suggests they are mostly stock. The biggest expenses are safety equipment (cage etc), and race entry fees. I could get more detailed if you wish.

What is the suspension setup on those? 

In reply to Tk8398 :

I've been looking. Swing arm rear. Kingpin front. Bugs run the gamut out here. Either big bucks or busted and rusted. 

Vajingo said:

itsarebuild said:

Hmmm. Spend big hours and big money to make an ex cop car go almost as many places half as well as a cheap and available Cherokee for no other reason than.... because.

 

if the point is to be contrary maybe a Citroen?

So rally cars must be garbage? I'm not rock crawling. I don't need/want/have a pick up. A truck requires heavy duty tools, and parts that spiral out of budget. I want a backroad bombing rally turd. Something I can repair with a 10mm and a ratchet. Something I can yank out of a ditch with a harbor freight atv winch. 

I have a fully built stage rally car..... And frankly speaking it would be lousy and extremely uncomfortable even on the green (easy) off-road trails around here..... Anything beyond a regular gravel fire road. 

If you want actual off-road ability I would still say go with something more or less made for it. XJ, or one of the small 4x4s from the '80s (I do my off-roading in a Dodge Raider And before that I had an XJ and a 4Runner). 

Sure you can make a car a okay off-roader but you will invest a bunch of money to make it marginally capable and it still won't be as good as most stock 4x4s, frankly - Even old stuff. For a car you'll have to do all kinds of custom stuff to get yourself enough suspension travel for it to be reasonably okay off-road. We go off-roading with a few guys that have lifted Subarus sitting on 30-in tires and a while they can do quite a few things they're lack of suspension travel is apparent and they also seem to be the ones that break the most because the components just aren't made to hold up to large tires and big flex.

I will also say that when you are off-roading it's nice to be sitting up higher so you can see what is happening with the terrain ahead.

Ymmv. I find it much more fun to have an appropriate tool for the job. Off-roading in a car, unless massively modified, is like going to the track in a 4x4. Sure it can do it, But it's not going to be very good at it.

I will also know that you commented something about needing heavy duty tools and things like that for trucks. My Raider (aka Montero) uses all the same tools as the rest of my cars, And honestly is way easier to work on than any car that I own, because there's actually space to get to things and most trucks are built more simply so they are more rugged and less likely to break stuff on the trail.