Learn me volvo 850glt wagons

While I'm at it here's another thread I go on and on about FWD White Block Volvos, specifically 850s:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/learn-me-volvo-850s/38356/page1/

• Lee

I stopped by and looked at the car tonight. It was def well used but I was impressed by the build quality and the way the car was holding up considering the wear that it had.

Cons( granted it was dark by the time I got there ) 1) I don't think it had a straight panel on the car 2) Interior panels missing 3) Surging idle for a few minutes after starting the car 4) Needs front brakes and tires 5) Had inside wear on front tires and feathering on the rear tires 6) Had a broken driver's side mirror 7) Check engine light pretty much stayed on 8) Another two idiot lights stayed on in the bottom corner of the dash( not sure what they were ) 9) automatic 10) non-turbo 11) Would need timing belt done soon

Pluses: 1) Handled decently for its size 2) Wasn't fast, but wasn't slow enough to make me want to get out and walk 3) Seats felt good and were in good shape; visibility was good 4) Has a recent inspection( past 2-3 months ) 5) Car had alot of old dust on the engine( ie no obvious major fluid leaks ) 6) Everything "looked" like I felt it should

Overall, the car felt very planted and I get why people love these cars. It def. felt "sturdy". I did get the feeling that there were alot of electronics that could die and cause issues, though.

I got the sense that the seller was being very honest about the car and his knowledge of it.

My questions: 1) How robust are the auto trannys on these cars and what maint should I consider for them? 2) What needs to be changed during a timing belt change( just the belt, tensioner and water pump?? )

Thanks in advance

I would offer $500 for it. It is not a horrible deal, but the CEL, idle surging, odd tire wear (sounds like it's due for a suspension refresh), idiot lights (have fun getting those to shut off), need of brakes, etc, makes it far from a $900 car. You're looking at a $300-1000 investment to put it right depending on what all is actually wrong with it. I don't know how the market is there, but I can find far nicer cars that need less work for $750 around here.

The autos aren't great but they only seem to blow up on the turbo models. Frequent fluid changes, as with any other FWD autobox, are a must. If it shifts well now, change the fluid with some good stuff (RedLine, OE brand fluid, etc - skip the Valvoline/Castrol/store brands) the second you buy it and it should keep shifting well forever. If I remember right, the turbo guys SWEAR by RedLine ATF. And, of course, don't drive around neutral dropping it to do burnouts...

Timing belt change, you are correct, belt, tensioner, and water pump are the norms - the odd vehicle can need an idler or whatever but that's uncommon unless it runs open covers (i.e. - not a stock Volvo 850).

If it was me? I'd look at it during the day to diagnose the running/suspension issues a bit more, and probably roll the dice and go for it, but would refuse to spend a dollar more than $750.

Around here, turbos are going for that price. Electrical problems seem to be the norm. Cars with bad transmissions are going for sub-$500. I understand that you're in serious need of a family vehicle, though, and you could do a LOT worse than a Volvo. I'd worry about it breaking a ball joint or snapping a timing belt before anything else, though.

You picked a good car but a bad example. Volvos were typically owned by people that took care of them, have two bought in the last few years with over 200K miles and excellent maintenance records. Both bought for under a grand. Both run great, look nice inside. Keep looking for one with less issues and more service history. BTW, our 850 wagon had a center armrest that folds into a kiddie booster seat. Neat feature if you have kids.

was waiting for someone to post that photo

Lots of good info above. The auto box in the NA 170 hp version is the same auto box that is in the high pressure turbo 240 hp version that people (like me) push 300hp or so through without incident. It's a toyota unit, very non fussy and easy to live with in turbo if you accept the limitations. From my excessive interweb reading on the subject they are stronger than rumored and will live along happy life is the fluid has been/is changed. In an NA they should be just fine.

That said, unless you want a slush box, find a manual car. They sold allot of these things.

The feathered rear tires might well indicate worn bushings in the interesting delta link passive steering geometry rear suspension set up. There are two that go, and they are doable in the driveway and are 30 bucks each.

Ok. Good to hear about the tranny. I'm gonna try and make one more trip over in the daylight, but I think I'm gonna pass. This car has def been rode hard and put up wet. As I'm adding up the costs for what it will take to make it somewhat reliable, its starting to look less and less of a good deal. Thanks for all of the great info. I'm gonna start the hunt for other 850's or even 740's now.

I would call on this 240 wagon.
http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/2684338403.html
Not much detail given in the ad but the seller is not a seasoned seller. That can be told by the fact that the word Volvo is never put in the ad and the fact that it is a 4 speed likely means it is a manual which is very desirable and he may not know that.

Is this the same Buick?
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/any-tent-campers-on-here/41146/page1/
http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/2683562523.html

jrw1621 wrote: Is this the same Buick? http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/any-tent-campers-on-here/41146/page1/ http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/2683562523.html

They look like they have diff rims(?), but other than that they are twins, or the same car w/ diff rims. I grew up in the back of one of these, but I know the wife wouldn't be pleased. They don't get great gas either.

I just got back from taking a second look at the volvo and I took a friend that used to work as a mechanic. It was raining pretty steady, so I couldn't really a good look under the car.

1) He thinks that the brakes aren't as high a priority as I thought that they were. The rotors and pads looked alot better in the daylight 2) There is a low coolant light on the dash -- does this only measure low coolant in the overflow or the rad itself? 3) Other lights on dash seem to indicate emissions issues 4) Needs front tires 5) Throttle cable has alot of play -- could have been adjusted to "fix" the idle issue 6) Has possible dirty throttle body or something related maint-wise. 7) Upper motor mount is gone

Long story short, the seller has another guy coming by to look at the car. I think I'm gonna offer him $450 and if he doesn't bite, I'll go look at the 240.

More to come...........

mrwillie wrote: 1) He thinks that the brakes aren't as high a priority as I thought that they were. The rotors and pads looked alot better in the daylight Front rotors are less than $50 each and pads less than $40 also so $150 for redo. Easy job. 2) There is a low coolant light on the dash -- does this only measure low coolant in the overflow or the rad itself? My coolant light would come on if the bottle was low. It is a pressurized bottle and I replaced the cap on mine to solve the loss issue. $6 3) Other lights on dash seem to indicate emissions issues 4) Needs front tires 5) Throttle cable has alot of play -- could have been adjusted to "fix" the idle issue 6) Has possible dirty throttle body or something related maint-wise. 7) Upper motor mount is gone Easy to replace but do not go with the factory unit. The aftermarket units are more DYI friendly. They are two piece and do not require a press to get them in. About $20. Prices quickly sourced from http://www.fcpgroton.com

The coolant level sensor is in the expansion/over flow tank. Light comes on when the level in the tank get low, if it ran the Orange antifreeze it's probably full of nasty gunk, and can cause the float for the sensor to stick. If the coolant gets low enough to turn the light on, and ran that way for long, the coolant residue will "glue" the float to the bottom of the tank.

A note on the aftermarket Polyurethane upper engine mount, they are easier to install, you'll have to destroy what's left of the factory one to get it out, it's pressed in. The 2-piece ones are easier to put in, but expect to get more vibrations from the engine, especially at idle, even more so in the winter time when the Poly bushing gets cold and hard.

If the upper engine mount is shot, then the transmission torque arm is likely gone, and I'll pretty much guarantee the front right engine mount is toast too. Be sure to replace the firewall side of the upper engine mount torque rod when you replace the bushing too. The front and rear hydraulic mounts probably have some life left in them though.

Timing belt, I'd do belt, tensioner, and idler too the first time. Also do the water pump and NEW water pump bolts at the same time. You can do the front right engine mount while your at it since it's right there.

• Lee

OK. I got the guy down to $550 on the volvo. Immediate repairs include the timing pieces and water pump. I don't have any extra money in the house right, but sitting beside the interstate last night after two flats( long story..) made it even more clear how little room I have for error right now. I feel like this is in borderline shape, and the last borderline car I bought left me beside the interstate on the way home. So, I'm kinda gunshy right now. I know that there are no guarantees, but should I keep looking for a better candidate or even a diff car or bite the bullet and try this one. If the odo, works on the volvo it has about 160k on it. It could be a month before I can do the belt.

What are your thoughts??

Well, how much time will you have to wrench on it? How soon do you need something? I looked at your requirements in the fist post again, and this checks off all but the MPG category, assuming you're putting $800-$1200 of parts and sweat equity into it. We, me, the interwebs, can all help you sort things out, but do you have the time, place, resources, to sort the car out?

If it's something you need right now, I'd pass. If it something you can spend a month or so driving and finding all the little things, ordering parts on line, waiting on shipping, and working your shade-tree mechanic skills then $550 sounds reasonable based on what you've told us.

The wagon might get 25 mpg on the interstate. My sedan with the same engine/trans in sound condition is averaging 21 and some change on my daily commute. Cruise doesn't work, and there's A LOT of stop and go in the mornings.

• Lee

Bring a socket set and pop open the timing cover. If the belt isn't frayed, cracking, or clearly ultra-worn, I would trust it for a few months. If it has 160k on the original belt, you WILL be able to tell. If it has been changed once in the car's lifetime already, like it should have been, it will PROBABLY be fine to 200k provided you don't bounce it off the rev limiter all the time. It is pretty common to see a 60k timing belt do 100k, however that doesn't mean that it happens 100% of the time.

bigdaddylee82 wrote: Well, how much time will you have to wrench on it? How soon do you need something? I looked at your requirements in the fist post again, and this checks off all but the MPG category, assuming you're putting $800-$1200 of parts and sweat equity into it. We, me, the interwebs, can all help you sort things out, but do you have the time, place, resources, to sort the car out? If it's something you need right now, I'd pass. If it something you can spend a month or so driving and finding all the little things, ordering parts on line, waiting on shipping, and working your shade-tree mechanic skills then $550 sounds reasonable based on what you've told us. The wagon might get 25 mpg on the interstate. My sedan with the same engine/trans in sound condition is averaging 21 and some change on my daily commute. Cruise doesn't work, and there's A LOT of stop and go in the mornings. - Lee Hey. I'm just getting a chance to get online. Say this again. Explain to me what you mean by, " If it's something you need right now, I'd pass. "

I pulled 24 mpg all the time in my mix of driving. Never less than 21 with heavier city driving and as high as 27 with all hyw.
Sure, it is a $500 purchase but you may need another $600 diy or $1500 at retail to have some work done.
Remember, at a $500 purchase you can still likely get $400 for it as scrap. Heck, just the taillights/headlights alone could help to double that money.

I just mean if you don't have the time to get everything on it sorted out, I probably wouldn't bother with it. You have me thinking you need a vehicle sooner rather than later, i.e. right now, and from how you've described the wagon you're looking at you'd have a lot of diagnosing/fixing ahead of you before it's something you could truly call worry free and reliable.

That's how it comes across to me anyway. If you've got the time to wait on parts, and the wherewithal to diagnose problems, and fix them then the Volvo is a good buy in my book.

jrw1621, is right, it's worth far more than $500 just for the parts. So get it and send me both head light lenses, the plug wire cover bolts, rear bump stops, dash light dimmer/rheostat, overhead map light assembly, and if it's got heated seats, I want the heating elements too.

• Lee

bigdaddylee82 wrote: I just mean if you don't have the time to get everything on it sorted out, I probably wouldn't bother with it. You have me thinking you need a vehicle sooner rather than later, i.e. right now, and from how you've described the wagon you're looking at you'd have a lot of diagnosing/fixing ahead of you before it's something you could truly call worry free and reliable. That's how it comes across to me anyway. If you've got the time to wait on parts, and the wherewithal to diagnose problems, and fix them then the Volvo is a good buy in my book. jrw1621, is right, it's worth far more than $500 just for the parts. So get it and send me both head light lenses, the plug wire cover bolts, rear bump stops, dash light dimmer/rheostat, overhead map light assembly, and if it's got heated seats, I want the heating elements too. - Lee

After inspecting the timing belt, if there aren't any cracks or anything would it be somewhat safe to drive while I do repairs? I was under the impression that once I did the timing belt/pulleys/water pump and get the pcv issue sorted I would be fine. The bushings and everything else would wait. I can put my wife in our accord for a few months if needed. I

In reply to mrwillie:

Sounds about right. If the belt looks good you are not taking a huge risk- there is no need to rev the 5 bangers as they are they are long stroke and torquey so you can minimize loads. The pvc system may not need help- the turbo cars are the ones that see the crankcase pressure and gunk via the blowby that causes issues.

If the the suspension is a little worn in non critical places - top hats in the front- the rear delta link bushings can go away and nothing falls off, front a arm bushings are pretty small so geometry hangs in there sort of as they rot. They will trundle along for a long time as they gather issues. Of course balls joints are another kettle of fish. You want good ones of those.

Again- I would need to see anything in person to make a real determination so you need to dig into the thing to check this stuff out, but they are tough cars designed to be maintained indefinitely.

In reply to Shaun:

I'm not sure the owner wants me there "tire kicking" again. The pvc light was on on the dash( would come on and go off), but the check engine light stayed on. I think I'm gonna give it another few days and if nothing better comes along I'll talk to him again about the car.

Do you use fcpgroton or ipd for your parts? The local stores I've been to here dont have many parts at all.

can get pretty good prices on volvo parts from http://www.eeuroparts.com/

@ 550 thats getting stinking close to scrap value...

either way thanks for the thread... makes me a bit more interested in finding one of these as a family work horse...