Had my first oh E36 M3 moment in the e36 and feel the need to share. For background, it is my first project and first rear wheel drive car since I started driving 15 years ago. It has been a few days since this happened and I have been reflecting back on everything I did wrong (read: everything!) and it has prompted me to look into car control clinics and autocross. I will be looking into fixing the ABS as well.
So what went wrong? I took a turn fast and decided to kick out the rear for fun. I'd kicked the rear out before from a stop and it's been easy to control. This time? Not so much.
The blessing is that it was early on a weekend and there was a ton of space. The road is 6 lanes total, north and south. Where I was, two extra lanes on both sides for turning exist, so technically 5 across, north-south road.
I remember making the green and hitting the gas mid-corner to kick out the rear. What I did not expect was to catch as much angle as I did, ending up pointing towards the curbing at oncoming traffic. Panicking, I over corrected, ended up in the opposite West turning lane while holding the brakes, no clutch in - full on panic ,and over correcting again when THAT curb was coming up fast. I'm not sure how, but I ended up back in the opposite turn lane (East, nearest oncoming traffic) pointed West. No idea how I didn't catch the curb on this side.
Luckily I'm ok, the car is ok, but certainly not the ride I expected. The drive home was a slow, shameful one and I am not going to try something like that again on a public road. Feeling dumb but am glad I didn't hurt anyone or anything. I understand it could have been much worse.
TL;Dr: Lost control in my first RWD car and thought I was cooked. Looking to participate in next month's autocross for some semblance of car control.
EchoTreeSix said:
TL;Dr: Lost control in my first RWD car and thought I was cooked. Looking to participate in next month's autocross for some semblance of car control.
I think that's an excellent takeaway from your experience. Glad to hear you and your car are okay.
And let us know if you need any help locating an autocross near you.
One of the greatest things about growing up in a place that got snow was going to a big empty parking lot to learn how to slide the car around. Dirt roads were the next best thing. Find a place to safely explore and exceed the limits of traction. You'll learn valuable skills and have a bunch of fun in the process. That place might be a vacant lot somewhere, or it might be a rally school. That place should not be a public road/intersection/etc. Have fun with it!
Reminds me of an incident where a friend of mine headed out at 2am and intentionally took a right hand turn too fast and then punched the gas. Back end came around and he caught that with full opposite lock but left the go pedal on the floor. The over-correct was very successful and he exited the roadway, striking the curb at right angles, crossing the grassy median, and finally gaining control of the vehicle in time to head up the wrong side of the divided road, finally crossing back into the correct lanes at the next intersection and continuing on without further mishap. This was about 40 years ago, and the guy may have been quite impaired.
Glad you came out of your situation without damage and acquired a bit of wisdom in the process.
About 25 years ago I was driving my (then new) E30 318is and spun it coming around a slow corner. Realized I didn't know how to drive properly and signed up for a BMW CCA "advanced drivers school" (now called HPDE). I got better REALLY quickly. Totally worth the time and money!
In reply to Colin Wood :
Thank you for the kind words and offer! I managed to find the only locally run one ( with Porsche Club of America) but looks like they're an open group. Now looking into places to buy a helmet locally that I can use for this and an HPDE event(s).
Do you have experience in the tech inspection area? The car has a couple of minor seeps. Doesn't drip unless parked for a long period of time. Unsure if that'll affect being able to participate.
In reply to LanEvo :
Looking into the next local HPDS / E weekend here. As with the with the next autocross session, it is not til October but am planning to attend.
I thought I knew what I was doing.. ha!
In reply to EchoTreeSix :
This update for our GTI project should point you in the right direction:
How to properly tech a used car for the track
And in case you need help picking the right size helmet:
Video: How to properly measure your head for an ideal-fitting racing helmet
EchoTreeSix said:
Do you have experience in the tech inspection area? The car has a couple of minor seeps. Doesn't drip unless parked for a long period of time. Unsure if that'll affect being able to participate.
A little seepage isn't going to get you failed at tech. However if you haven't had the car on track keep in mind that the car tends to get a whole lot more leaky when at track temps.
j_tso
Dork
9/10/24 3:05 p.m.
I'm not comfortable with the rear kicking out. It'd be nice if there was a facility that could rent a skid pad with sprinklers by the half hour.
Some autocross and HPDE orgs frown on using their events to practice hooning.
EchoTreeSix said:
In reply to Colin Wood :
Do you have experience in the tech inspection area? The car has a couple of minor seeps. Doesn't drip unless parked for a long period of time. Unsure if that'll affect being able to participate.
whats seeping? oil, coolant? if its coolant; can you swap out the coolant to straight water? if its oil and it drips onto the exhaust enough to smoke and/or if it creates a spot in Grid you might get black flagged ending your day early.
Also when i'm at tech if somebody tells me its leaking anything I ask them to kindly not risk other cars on track and to fix the leak.
Yup, get thee to an autocross. Learn car control in a safe place.
In reply to ClearWaterMS :
It is oil. Unfortunately it seems to be coming from the oil pan, so not something that will be a quick fix. There's been no change in level over the past ~1k miles. Minor, but I understand where you're coming from.
Sounds like it'd be best to avoid the track due to possibility of making the car leak worse and ruining days.
I did that with a hot Mustang I built back in the 70's. Hit the gas in a turn for that rear end out experience and did a little over a 180. Didn't hit anything. I was 18 at the time.
Tom1200
PowerDork
9/10/24 4:15 p.m.
EchoTreeSix said:
In reply to ClearWaterMS :
It is oil. Unfortunately it seems to be coming from the oil pan, so not something that will be a quick fix. There's been no change in level over the past ~1k miles. Minor, but I understand where you're coming from.
Sounds like it'd be best to avoid the track due to possibility of making the car leak worse and ruining days.
My race car (Datsun 1200) has had a leaking rear main seal and or pan leak for the last 4 seasons.
I simply clean it off between events. It's leaking about the same rate as your car; if it's not actively leaving oil on the underside of the car I wouldn't worry about it.
If it is leaving oil on the underside of the car than ClearWaterMS is absolutely correct; fix it before you do a track day.
As for your near crash...............most people involved in this hobby has done that. I will tell you I rode motorcycles like a nut on the street; my first race cured that.
Kicking out the back end for fun turned out to be possibly the worst and certainly the most immediately catastrophic mistake of my life. I'd done it many times before, but over time I'd built up enough confidence and/or dangerous familiarity with hard obstacles to try it in a fairly confined space with plenty of speed:
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/my-turn-in-the-disaster-barrel/269237/page1/
I was very aware of the danger of overcorrecting by the time I'd realized how much E36 M3 I was in, so I just held my countersteer angle and went two feet in, and ended up catching a pillar to the nose of the car (I was also worried about the curbs and boulders to the right, or the possibility of taking the pillar to the door).
I'm also looking into "fixing" my ABS as a result - by hooking up a big emergency shutoff button next to the handbrake that will let me quickly disable it if I'm in a big slide or a spin and need to lock up the wheels. The ABS system didn't let me, so going from lightly brushing to desperately mashing the brakes mid-slide yielded only a subtle increase in deceleration.
Motojunky said:
One of the greatest things about growing up in a place that got snow was going to a big empty parking lot to learn how to slide the car around. Dirt roads were the next best thing. Find a place to safely explore and exceed the limits of traction. You'll learn valuable skills and have a bunch of fun in the process. That place might be a vacant lot somewhere, or it might be a rally school. That place should not be a public road/intersection/etc. Have fun with it!
100%. I spent a lot of time driving sideways in the snow at relatively slow speeds as a yout. So much time driving sideways. Taught me a lot.
Glad the lesson was consequence-free! I had my own whoa! moment as a young driver the first time I tried to kick the back end out and hit some wet leaves. Got lucky, just spooked myself.
FWIW, RWD cars with peg legs will act differently at the end of traction than those with limited slip/positracs. Edit: Years ago a Miata with a Torsen nearly got me in the rain.
Been there. Done that at least twice. Once coming onto an on-ramp, ended up facing the wrong way on the on ramp. Also in E36. Scared me into driving safer on public roads and taking it out in karts or autocross.
Glad you and the car weren't hurt.
Keith Tanner said:
Motojunky said:
One of the greatest things about growing up in a place that got snow was going to a big empty parking lot to learn how to slide the car around. Dirt roads were the next best thing. Find a place to safely explore and exceed the limits of traction. You'll learn valuable skills and have a bunch of fun in the process. That place might be a vacant lot somewhere, or it might be a rally school. That place should not be a public road/intersection/etc. Have fun with it!
100%. I spent a lot of time driving sideways in the snow at relatively slow speeds as a yout. So much time driving sideways. Taught me a lot.
Glad the lesson was consequence-free! I had my own whoa! moment as a young driver the first time I tried to kick the back end out and hit some wet leaves. Got lucky, just spooked myself.
Lotsa truth, here.
Snow + RWD mini truck + Manual Trans + Manual Steering = You learn to control your traction really well.
Shortly after I bought my racing Miata I was driving it on a twisty mountain road with a friend. I had been driving on twisty back roads my whole life and I had experience on this road in this car, but on this particular day I gave it just a little too much gas leaving a corner and I ended up pointing the wrong way. I had spun a couple of times in autocrosses as well, so after I got the car back home I checked the tires - 17 years old! I replaced them with new Proxes R888Rs and that combined with a lot more seat time means I haven't spun on the road, autox, or at the track since :)
