The ND-chassis Mazda MX-5 hit the scene back in 2016. In those 8 years since, the car has received several updates including a revised engine, an asymmetric limited-slip differential and DSC-Track–a track-focused mode for the car’s stability control.
[ICYMI: 2024 ND Miata Club gets new limited-slip and driving mode]
How much have all those updates improved the ND? Is the latest …
Please, PLEASE take this to the FIRM and let us know how the new steering and diff work. Don't just take it shopping. This is a GRM core audience vehicle and not a random SUV. Maybe Andy should visit Florida.
In those 8 years since, the car has received several updates including a revised engine, an asymmetric limited-slip differential and DSC-Track–a track-focused mode for the car’s stability control.
Note that the new engine showed up in 2019, the other updates are new for 2024. There was also the kinematic posture control tweak a couple of years ago, does it remain active in DSC-Track?
Keith Tanner said:There was also the kinematic posture control tweak a couple of years ago, does it remain active in DSC-Track?
Good question. Let me see what I can find.
EDIT: All the documentation I've read so far would lead me to believe that KPC is sort of on all the time, so it may remain active in DSC-Track. Let me try and get a confirmation from Mazda.
Interesting that they went with a fancy mechanical trick to make the diff "asymmetrical" instead of going with an electronically controlled LSD.
Do both the legacy ND2 and this update have "OFF" as an option for the TC?
Colin Wood said:Keith Tanner said:There was also the kinematic posture control tweak a couple of years ago, does it remain active in DSC-Track?
Good question. Let me see what I can find.
EDIT: All the documentation I've read so far would lead me to believe that KPC is sort of on all the time, so it may remain active in DSC-Track. Let me try and get a confirmation from Mazda.
AFAIK it is disabled when DSC is turned off, that's what I recall Coleman telling me about it. CrashDummy, DSC can be turned completely off on the ND1 and ND2 for sure.
From the 2024 Miata service highlights:
Kinetic Posture Control (KPC) is not performed when the following condition is met.
― DSC OFF indicator light is turned on by pressing DSC OFF switch (See DSC OFF SWITCH, DSC OFF INDICATOR LIGHT.)
That would seem to say that KPC stays on in DSC-Track, but I'll keep digging.
Heh heh. More skidding!
Do not use DSC-TRACK on public roads.
• The DSC-TRACK is a mode which reduces the frequency of DSC activation during sports driving such as on circuits and allows more skidding than when DSC is normally activated.
• The DSC-TRACK performs brake control of each wheel during turning.
• The DSC-TRACK is activated by pressing the DSC-TRACK switch for approx. 1 s and the brakes on each wheel are controlled to suppress the oversteer.
Keith Tanner said:Kinetic Posture Control (KPC) is not performed when the following condition is met.
― DSC OFF indicator light is turned on by pressing DSC OFF switch (See DSC OFF SWITCH, DSC OFF INDICATOR LIGHT.)
Getting big "Donny Don't" vibes from this description.
KPC sounds a lot like a fancy descriptor for a fairly typical e-diff, just applied to a mechanical lsd.
We've got track time scheduled tomorrow at the FIRM, so hopefully the weather cooperates. As with all of these cars I usually start out with all the aids off (frequently after a lengthy and frustrating search on my phone for how to actually do it while sitting in the car waiting to go out), then after we have good data in the bag I'll experiment with modes if there seems to be a mode that could be track friendly. I've yet to find any that are faster than "all off" in any car that could be considered reasonably attainable, but some of them are interesting, like VWs various modes on the Golf R or the GR Corolla's torque split choices.
Really looking forward to driving this thing with those brakes and that diff, though. I think it'll be a nice combo.
KPC is actually a lot more clever than that. It's using the anti-squat geometry in the suspension to keep the car flatter in corners, not using the brakes as hard as torque vectoring or LSD emulation. A guy I knew did an in-depth video on it.
I am of the belief that you can get better wheels and brakes than the Brembo/BBS package from the aftermarket for less money, but that's just like, my opinion man. Can't wait to hear what happens at the track.
Will you guys do a back to back test with a stock ND2? With the new LSD and "better feels" steering, do these equate faster lap times? Particularly in autocross street class.
I have an ND2 but just wondering if ND3 changes are worth the upgrade.... and hassles of swapping mods over. Ugh.
Does anyone have a link to an article or video that directly tests a Club with the Brembo/BBS wheel package against a Club with the standard brake/wheel package?
In reply to Coniglio Rampante :
The only time you'd notice a difference would be in repeated hard stops (such as track use) and with a driver that can notice a 1.85 lb decrease in wheel weight. The Brembos should have better heat management than the standard brakes, but they are a bulky thing that can affect wheel fitment if you want something different. Rotor diameter is the same.
Keith Tanner said:KPC is actually a lot more clever than that. It's using the anti-squat geometry in the suspension to keep the car flatter in corners, not using the brakes as hard as torque vectoring or LSD emulation. A guy I knew did an in-depth video on it.
I am of the belief that you can get better wheels and brakes than the Brembo/BBS package from the aftermarket for less money, but that's just like, my opinion man. Can't wait to hear what happens at the track.
Okay that's kind of cool. Sort of like robo-trail braking with independent wheel control. Woul dbe super cool if you could hack it to actually help you go faster as I'm sure the factory programming is probably pretty anti-idiot biased (which, to be fair, is probably a good compromise).
And I haven't priced out the brake/wheel package vs upgrade price, but I know on the BRZ tS it was really close to being a fairly even deal. And when you consider that you can roll that in to your purchase loan at 6-7% or whatever, vs going out of pocket or on a 18% credit card, it starts to not seem too crazy. I'm just happy that otherwise great cars with subpar brakes are finally getting good factory options.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Thank you.
The "brand name" package (BBS/Brembo/Recaro) is $4800 on a 2024. It's an all or nothing package.
In 2019, you could get just the brakes and wheels for $3770 - the Recaros added another $900, and you had to get the brakes/wheels to get the seats. I have to say that in my brief experience with them that the seats seem pretty sweet.
Kudos to Mazda for a well thought out update. My experience was that ND in stock form is setup well to do first track days. Once hooked, mods inevitably followed that take it to another level. While the ND3 updates seem all welcome improvements, I don't think any would move the needle much relative to an already track modded ND1 or ND2. (Same is true for any track prepped mx5 to degrees). The thing I am most jealous of is the updated infotainment, but that's because my 30AE is also my daily.
Keith Tanner said:The "brand name" package (BBS/Brembo/Recaro) is $4800 on a 2024. It's an all or nothing package.
In 2019, you could get just the brakes and wheels for $3770 - the Recaros added another $900, and you had to get the brakes/wheels to get the seats. I have to say that in my brief experience with them that the seats seem pretty sweet.
Agree.
My ND1 Brembo/Club had the cloth seats. Hurt my back when I drove for more than 30 minutes. The Recaros in my ND2 are awesome. I've done 15 hours straight in the saddle and no pain. Plus, they have much better support for track use. Not quite a race bucket but far better than the cloth...the latter being not much more than a suspended lawn chair.
The move is to buy a Recaro car and sell off the BBS wheels. Brand new, they'll net you $1200 or so And then you buy aftermarket wheels like Keith sells...in much better widths, plus better tires (the OE tires are skinny and awful).
Coniglio Rampante said:Does anyone have a link to an article or video that directly tests a Club with the Brembo/BBS wheel package against a Club with the standard brake/wheel package?
I swapped the factory wheels and brakes off of my ND2 RF for the BBS/Brembo combination that I found second-hand. I was surprised how much I was able to feel the drop in weight; a few pounds of unsprung weight per corner makes a bigger difference than you think on a car that's already pretty light. I only took it on the track occasionally and I don't have lap times to compare, but the Brembos were a big step up in terms of brake feel and heat tolerance. IMO to do any better than the Brembos you really need to step up to something like the AP Racing setup which is another level of price and performance. If you were chasing outright lap times than wider wheels/tires would be reasonable, but for a mixed purpose street/track car with great road manners the Brembo/BBS package is great. Two big thumbs up from me.
Seat preference is highly dependent on body type. I found the stock seats to be about a 4/10 in terms of comfort, and the Recaros to be about 3/10. I don't have the car anymore.
Minor spoilers here but the track test was dry and fun. Honestly I connected with this thing better than any stock Miata in recent memory. Just really super satisfying and friendly.
Race mode and KPC are both fun and intriguing, but ultimately slow the car down. As soon as a wheel unloads thoroughly enough it just kills all your momentum, and the equipped tires like a LOT of slip angle, so it ends up being kind of a buzzkill. Might be great in the rain or with a novice driver on sticky rubber, though.
But, yeah, super thumbs up for this thing. Looking forward to going over the data and shooting/writing the test review.
JG Pasterjak said:Race mode and KPC are both fun and intriguing, but ultimately slow the car down. As soon as a wheel unloads thoroughly enough it just kills all your momentum, and the equipped tires like a LOT of slip angle, so it ends up being kind of a buzzkill. Might be great in the rain or with a novice driver on sticky rubber, though.
I leave DSC on for rain work on the track. Works perfectly for that level of grip. Stupidly intrusive otherwise.
I have a 2019 ND-RF with aftermarket BBK and bigger wheels and tires. I'm not a fan of the stock leather seats, so I'll have to ask to try the first Recaro equipped car I see.
DeadSkunk (Warren) said:I have a 2019 ND-RF with aftermarket BBK and bigger wheels and tires. I'm not a fan of the stock leather seats, so I'll have to ask to try the first Recaro equipped car I see.
I absolutely loved the Recaros. They were probably a big part of the reason this was one of my favorite Miatas in recent memory.
I picked up the MX-5 yesterday, so impressions to come soon.
Did the MX-5’s interior always squeak this much or is it just me?
In reply to David S. Wallens :
You've been driving too many $100k SUVs :)
In reply to Keith Tanner :
And Hyundais. :)
I thought the rattles and wind noise in NDs were an intentional homage to NA Miatas?
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