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Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson Dork
4/11/12 11:56 a.m.

I mentioned in the hotlink thread that a Lotus 7 had once entered an F1 Grand prix. Here's the proof.

Brausch Niemann qualified 32nd and last with a time of 1:44.5 Vs the pole time of Jim Clark at 1:35.0 in his Lotus 25. He finished 10th ahead of 3 Lotus Climax cars

Keith
Keith GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/11/12 11:57 a.m.

That's awesome. Thanks for sharing.

Qualified 32nd, finished 10th? That's impressive.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson Dork
4/11/12 12:07 p.m.

Here's the results. 1 Clark Lotus-Climax 1:20-47.4 95.70mph 2 Taylor Lotus-Climax 1:20-47.7
3 Surtees Lola-Climax 1:21-11.1
4 Hocking Lotus-Climax 49 laps
5 Lederle Lotus-Climax 49 laps
6 Serrurier LDS-Alfa Romeo 48 laps
7 de Klerk Alfa Special 47 laps
8 Tingle LDS-Alfa Romeo 47 laps
9 Viljoen LDS-Climax 46 laps
10 NIEMANN LOTUS-FORD 46 LAPS
11 Pieterse Lotus-Climax 46 laps
12 Podmore Lotus-Climax 44 laps
13 Bosman LDS-Alfa Romeo 43 laps
14 van Niekerk Lotus Climax 40 laps
15 Ginther BRM 36 laps

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson Dork
4/11/12 12:07 p.m.

More info: Niemann's car had a Ford 109E all steel engine bored out to 1475cc with four Amal carburettors, special camshaft and head. The chassis was halved lengthwise and reduced by two inches to comply with Formula One regulations. The front brakes were 1958 Mercedes 180 with finned drums. The rear axle was changed to Austin due to the wide choice of ratios and free-floating hubs were incorporated as a safety feature. There was no limited-slip differential so a fiddle handbrake was used on the driver's side to stop wheel in the corners. The car was painted red, had steel wheels and the cycle wings were removed.

To everyones astonishment the Seven easily qualified for a place on the start line. Non-starters included eight Coopers, a BRM, the Assegai, the Netuar, one LDS, four Lotus 18's and two Lotus 20's.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson Dork
4/11/12 12:08 p.m.

More. Bolding mine.

Clark led all the way and won the race itself, followed closely by Taylor, Surtees and Hocking with the Seven finishing in a respectable 10th. place having beaten three of the Climax powered Lotuses. Through the speed trap Niemann was timed at an astonishing 127mph. Infact so fast was the car that Chapman was heard to remark that it must be the quickest Lotus Seven in the world when he saw it howling down the Kyalami straight 'stuck' to the rear of Jim Clark's Lotus 25!

Rusted_Busted_Spit
Rusted_Busted_Spit GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
4/11/12 12:34 p.m.

That is cool.

RossD
RossD UltraDork
4/11/12 12:43 p.m.

Feel free to drop more info on us. I love me some Sevens and history!

alfadriver
alfadriver UberDork
4/11/12 1:02 p.m.

Adrian What race is this one?

I was looking up the LSD-Alfa Romeos, and they only raced in the South African Grand Prix in '62, 63, and 64 (which is a very interesting story, since they are kind of coopers and brahbams, but ran ONLY in SA).

In the '62 results posted in Wiki (yea, I know, it's wiki...), it doesn't even show a Lotus-Ford at all (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1962_South_African_Grand_Prix)

whereas in '63, there's one entered- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_South_African_Grand_Prix starting in 15th, finishing 14th, 19 laps down.

Where did you reference the results?

(For the Alfisti, googling LSD-Alfa Romeo just nets a simple wiki page, very little details- but I'm guessing it's a sleeved 1600 engine, which is easy to do. But there are 1500 kits for the 1300.... they did compete in the 2010 Monaco historics...)

It would be interesting to see if this Lotus-Ford still exists like the LSD-Alfa's do....

dculberson
dculberson Dork
4/11/12 3:23 p.m.

Adrian, between this and the Brit kits, you're on a tear today! Lots of awesome posts, thanks.

bearmtnmartin
bearmtnmartin GRM+ Memberand Reader
4/11/12 6:46 p.m.

Bit of a tangent, but here are a couple of other stories about unlikely race entrys.

http://www.barcboys.com/LimeRock%20TheRace.htm

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1072607/2/index.htm

ransom
ransom GRM+ Memberand Dork
4/11/12 7:03 p.m.

That makes Sevens even cooler...

To think, I could be daily driving an F1 replica...

DWNSHFT
DWNSHFT Reader
4/11/12 7:43 p.m.

Wow, that Kyalami straight was immense. At least in Gran Prix: Legends... :-)

David

stroker
stroker HalfDork
4/11/12 8:53 p.m.

I wonder what that car would be worth today...

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon MegaDork
4/11/12 8:56 p.m.

Wow. A kit car in F1. (Let's face it, the Seven was a kit car first and foremost.) I wonder if Factory Five has any ideas along those lines...

JoeyM
JoeyM SuperDork
4/11/12 9:20 p.m.
Curmudgeon wrote: Wow. A kit car in F1. (Let's face it, the Seven was a kit car first and foremost.) I wonder if Factory Five has any ideas along those lines...

It would be cool but I doubt it. The gap between ordinary sports car and F1 car is a lot bigger than it used to be...

T.J.
T.J. UberDork
4/11/12 9:45 p.m.

Awesome post.

Double_Wishbone
Double_Wishbone New Reader
4/11/12 9:57 p.m.

This is so cool! Thank for sharing!

Apexcarver
Apexcarver UberDork
4/11/12 10:00 p.m.

Looked it up, driver was in South Africa GP in 1963 with an attempted return in 65 (did not qualify)

Wiki says that he was the last finisher down 19 laps from the lead?

Grandprix.com says that it was a lotus 22 with ford power? (other sites say this as well, the 2 was a formula Jr. possible misrecording? )

Its interesting, the lotus 7 register backs up what you are saying. There are photos where they say its that driver in a mid-engine car at that race...

Truth seems clouded in many resources.

AHA! OK, the register says the race was in Dec of '62, so it wasnt the official F1 race?

http://www.lotus7register.co.uk/springbk.htm

fast_eddie_72
fast_eddie_72 SuperDork
4/11/12 10:43 p.m.

That's just cool.

Double_Wishbone
Double_Wishbone New Reader
4/11/12 11:20 p.m.

I think this may have taken place back in the day when some F1 races did not count for points towards either the manufacturer's or the driver's championships. I guess it would still be an official F1 Grand Prix, just no points.

I Am Keyser Söze
I Am Keyser Söze SuperDork
4/11/12 11:32 p.m.

that is really cool

gamby
gamby PowerDork
4/11/12 11:36 p.m.
dculberson wrote: Adrian, between this and the Brit kits, you're on a tear today! Lots of awesome posts, thanks.

Yeah--the British pride is really paying off today! Love it!!!

This was a fascinating post (and as grassroots as it could possibly get).

alfadriver
alfadriver UberDork
4/12/12 7:08 a.m.

In reply to Apexcarver:

The picture is very clear that the 7 derivative was there. Too bad that the documentation doesn't match the picture...

edit- and thanks to link the 7 registry page- I was looking at the wrong race. Assuming that this was the 1962 South African Grand Prix- I was wrong. The race that Adrian points out is the 1962 Rand Grand Prix, run on December 15, 1962, same Kyalami track, but a week and a half before the actual Grand Prix. Very short wiki page on it- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1962_Rand_Grand_Prix

it's odd to think about how many races were run under Grand Prix rules, but non championship. According to this list- http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/archive/f1/nc/1962/1962.html, there were 22 races in '62 that were run with the current GP rules, but no points were awarded. And major players DID show up- you seem top names on top teams at every race. can't really fathom that happening anymore.

intrepid
intrepid New Reader
4/12/12 9:03 a.m.

As impressive as modern cars are, when I hear stories like this, its hard not to feel a bit like something has been lost over the years...

-chris r.

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon MegaDork
4/12/12 9:35 a.m.

It's not so much the cars but the racing that's changed. Used to be, all you had to do was drive to the track, tape your headlights, flip down the windshield, pay your entry and do your best. There's family footage floating around of my dad doing exactly that at Sebring in the late '50's. FWIW, amateur off road motorcycle racing and amateur drag racing is still pretty much that way. LeMons is probably as close as road racing comes to that.

But nowadays there's a whole list of rules, you need to be licensed, etc. I'm not saying that's a bad thing but it's very difficult to compare today's racing to that simpler time.

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