And yeah, Club Spec's killer app is that it really is daily driveable. Eric's car normally has a car seat and he's got winter tires for it, too. (Wisconsin)
He literally doesn't own another car and he drove this one here.
And yeah, Club Spec's killer app is that it really is daily driveable. Eric's car normally has a car seat and he's got winter tires for it, too. (Wisconsin)
He literally doesn't own another car and he drove this one here.
Duke said:In reply to JG Pasterjak :
Curious as to why these are slower than Street class cars, now that Street no longer includes R-comps? Is it really all down to expensive dampers?
100-150hp, wider and stickier tires, IRS vs heavy stick axle.
I’m seeing suitable cars out there for sale....
I was an early adopter to this class, and I have no regrets. I have something like 16 days on track this year, with up to 1000 mile round trip since I have not been trailering it. In fact as you can see below, the Mustang IS my tow vehicle. The car has never let me down. I hope to see the class grow to be even stronger for '25, and look forward to seeing a big field for TT nationals.
In reply to Racebrick :
We are reliving the golden age of when people drive their cars to events.
When I got involved with stage rally back in the early 90s the old timers spoke of the days when you drove your rally car to events and then to work on Monday.
looking at the mustangs vs the miatas, **if we throw out the top Mustang driver ** it looks like cars are very evenly matched (even a slight advantage to the NC's. pretty cool to see this level of parity right off the bat.
I hope we get some grm reports on what its like to drive the csx miatas!
David S. Wallens said:I’ve wondered about a Spec Vette class, too, but which Vette would you choose?
C6z06, give it better seats, a bolt on cylinder head (to fix the valve guide issues) and maybe some swaybars or something. I'd start shopping tomorrow, but I'm not going to run cam just because I don't want to have to do annual cylinder head rebuilds and put up with the second worst sports car seats of all time (first being the c5). These were once popular enough to make AS the biggest class at nats for a couple of years so clearly there's interest, but they're starting to age out of being street class friendly. Not cheap per se but very attainable and a great value and actually easy to build a spec class around. And we already have three "cheap" spec classes, it's okay to aim one at people who like kind of nice things.
dps214 said:David S. Wallens said:I’ve wondered about a Spec Vette class, too, but which Vette would you choose?
C6z06, give it better seats, a bolt on cylinder head (to fix the valve guide issues) and maybe some swaybars or something. I'd start shopping tomorrow, but I'm not going to run cam just because I don't want to have to do annual cylinder head rebuilds and put up with the second worst sports car seats of all time (first being the c5). These were once popular enough to make AS the biggest class at nats for a couple of years so clearly there's interest, but they're starting to age out of being street class friendly. Not cheap per se but very attainable and a great value and actually easy to build a spec class around. And we already have three "cheap" spec classes, it's okay to aim one at people who like kind of nice things.
Since you brought up seats... One thing that really stood out to me when I did do a track day in my S197 was that the factory seats, while reasonably comfortable, were absolutely terrible for holding me in place. I assume the common move is to swap in Recaros or something from a later 5.0 car? Is that allowed in the class?
We swapped in the GT350 Recaros Set. Made a ton of difference in spirited non-public access driving.
TNiA upcoming event at Kershaw will provide further clarity on the seat challenges or not.
Detail to follow.
JG Pasterjak said:Duke said:In reply to JG Pasterjak :
Curious as to why these are slower than Street class cars, now that Street no longer includes R-comps? Is it really all down to expensive dampers?
100-150hp, wider and stickier tires, IRS vs heavy stick axle.
Ohhhhhhh.
I thought you were talking about the same generation Mustang, but prepared to F Street rules.
Not just the other, faster cars in F Street.
dps214 said:David S. Wallens said:I’ve wondered about a Spec Vette class, too, but which Vette would you choose?
C6z06, give it better seats, a bolt on cylinder head (to fix the valve guide issues) and maybe some swaybars or something. I'd start shopping tomorrow, but I'm not going to run cam just because I don't want to have to do annual cylinder head rebuilds and put up with the second worst sports car seats of all time (first being the c5). These were once popular enough to make AS the biggest class at nats for a couple of years so clearly there's interest, but they're starting to age out of being street class friendly. Not cheap per se but very attainable and a great value and actually easy to build a spec class around. And we already have three "cheap" spec classes, it's okay to aim one at people who like kind of nice things.
Why would you have to put up with seats in CAMS?
"Front seat(s) may be modified or replaced. Rear seat(s) may be replaced, modified, or removed. Unless
originally equipped as a center seat vehicle the driver’s seating area must not cross the vehicle’s
longitudinal centerline and must not intrude into the original rear seat area."
The main argument I have against the c6z as a spec car aside from being kinda expensive now (I think most people racing now got them before the pandemic and the v8 panic drove them through the roof) is that they are already very competitive in several classes. Making a spec classes around them will just cannibalize AS who want a easier driver pool and CAMS who don't want that money pit. Making a home for some of the less competitive vettes would probably get more people out
In reply to theruleslawyer :
I agree with your assessment. The early S197 4.6L and NC make sense as they don't really have a competitive place to go and are reasonably priced. Robbing cars that are already competitive in other classes doesn't make much sense.
My vote for a Corvette spec class: base C5. There are a boatload of them, they're reasonably affordable, they have no other place to compete, they're well out of warranty and have a huge aftermarket. Essentially it's the same rationale as both of these spec classes, as well as SSC.
theruleslawyer said:dps214 said:David S. Wallens said:I’ve wondered about a Spec Vette class, too, but which Vette would you choose?
C6z06, give it better seats, a bolt on cylinder head (to fix the valve guide issues) and maybe some swaybars or something. I'd start shopping tomorrow, but I'm not going to run cam just because I don't want to have to do annual cylinder head rebuilds and put up with the second worst sports car seats of all time (first being the c5). These were once popular enough to make AS the biggest class at nats for a couple of years so clearly there's interest, but they're starting to age out of being street class friendly. Not cheap per se but very attainable and a great value and actually easy to build a spec class around. And we already have three "cheap" spec classes, it's okay to aim one at people who like kind of nice things.
Why would you have to put up with seats in CAMS?
"Front seat(s) may be modified or replaced. Rear seat(s) may be replaced, modified, or removed. Unless
originally equipped as a center seat vehicle the driver’s seating area must not cross the vehicle’s
longitudinal centerline and must not intrude into the original rear seat area."The main argument I have against the c6z as a spec car aside from being kinda expensive now (I think most people racing now got them before the pandemic and the v8 panic drove them through the roof) is that they are already very competitive in several classes. Making a spec classes around them will just cannibalize AS who want a easier driver pool and CAMS who don't want that money pit. Making a home for some of the less competitive vettes would probably get more people out
I think you misread what I wrote, I'd have to go to cam to get better seats. AS participation has been trailing off for a while, and a bunch of newer stuff was just added so its time of relevance there is probably fairly limited. I haven't been paying close attention but from what I have seen prices are still pretty reasonable. Starting with a base car you'd end up basically making a "budget" z06...might as well just use the factory built version with some slight improvements.
More on topic, I did the club spec test drive event at Nationals today and was pleasantly surprised. The ergonomics are not good for me (I think this could mostly be fixed with a steering wheel spacer) but they drive better than I expected. Soft for sure, but predictable and tossable with no real bad habits other than some occasional inside wheelspin in right turns. Not overwhelming power but enough to get out of its own way and generate a bit of on throttle rotation.
In reply to Tom1200 :
I added up ~10k on their website iirc when I looked a few months ago. So I could be into one for the price of a pretty good S2k these days.
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:dps214 said:David S. Wallens said:I’ve wondered about a Spec Vette class, too, but which Vette would you choose?
C6z06, give it better seats, a bolt on cylinder head (to fix the valve guide issues) and maybe some swaybars or something. I'd start shopping tomorrow, but I'm not going to run cam just because I don't want to have to do annual cylinder head rebuilds and put up with the second worst sports car seats of all time (first being the c5). These were once popular enough to make AS the biggest class at nats for a couple of years so clearly there's interest, but they're starting to age out of being street class friendly. Not cheap per se but very attainable and a great value and actually easy to build a spec class around. And we already have three "cheap" spec classes, it's okay to aim one at people who like kind of nice things.
Since you brought up seats... One thing that really stood out to me when I did do a track day in my S197 was that the factory seats, while reasonably comfortable, were absolutely terrible for holding me in place. I assume the common move is to swap in Recaros or something from a later 5.0 car? Is that allowed in the class?
In an indirect way, yes. On the surface no interior changes are allowed. But you can make the car compliant to scca TT "level 2" safety standards which requires a roll bar but allows any aftermarket seat and a steering wheel change (plus rear interior removal to offset the rollbar weight). That seems to be a common move - both cars I test drove had a seat, and one had a steering wheel. Both had the wheel in the stock location and the ergonomics were still bad for me. I'd want the steering wheel spaced like 4-6" towards me so that my arms could be comfortable without having my right knee trying to be inside of the key and steering column.
Is there any reason a Watson Roll Bar can not be utilized?
P guess I really need to read the SCCA GCR CSM rules.
Thanks
In reply to gencollon :
Won't swear to my math being accurate. I may have missed some parts. I looked at the suspension, brakes and ecu.
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