What was figured out with the warp that welding is going to induce? How is that dealt with?
What was figured out with the warp that welding is going to induce? How is that dealt with?
In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :
I would bolt it down to a scrap block then weld it or most of it. Guess you could make a plate with holes to weld up the bottom also.
In reply to Stampie (FS) :
Makes sense and figured a scrap block should make for a decent jig. Will be watching and hopefully learning something here.
How well will the water passages line up once the head is sectioned?
This is either the worst idea ever or the best idea ever. Both?
For real GRM points, you'll need to weld the scraps together and attach to a two-cylinder engine. Have any motorcycles that would benefit from LS heads?
Mr_Asa said:
I'm... speechless. And maybe a little emotionally erect.
If you don't have plans for your two end scraps, would you be willing to (be paid to) ship them to the opposite corner of the country for other similarly 'bad' idea exploration?
If this runs at the challenge you win. I don't know exactly what you win, but you will win something.
Tom Suddard said:This is either the worst idea ever or the best idea ever. Both?
For real GRM points, you'll need to weld the scraps together and attach to a two-cylinder engine. Have any motorcycles that would benefit from LS heads?
do it again and use the scraps on a subaru.
pres589 (djronnebaum) said:What was figured out with the warp that welding is going to induce? How is that dealt with?
This is a problem for future me. Future me has his own house, a garage with many interesting things within it, a library within his house that smells of rich mahogany, and a separate workshop behind the house with many machining tools. He is also skinnier than me and has a better paying job. Future me can go pound sand.
Seriously though, I'm not 100% sure what the plan is, I'm making most of this up as I go along with the help of the Hive. Stampie has a good part of it, but I don't know how much that will help. I'll post some pictures below to illustrate my main concern.
L5wolvesf said:How well will the water passages line up once the head is sectioned?
From what I can tell, surprisingly well. Here's a pic
Additionally, this illustrates my main concern with the welding future-me will have to deal with, and I'd like to get some input on it. Most of this appears straightforward. The inner bolt hole is a bit of a concern as I'm worried that it might leak coolant from the inner wall, but I have a plan for that for later.
The part I'm unsure about is on the bottom of the head. I'm thinking that I'm going to have to bevel a fairly decent amount back and then do a multi-pass butt weld? Anyone have any comments on how deep that v-groove will need to be?
Come to think of it, I need mke to wander through here. He's basically done all of this to some extent with his Ferarri.
Driven5 said:If you don't have plans for your two end scraps, would you be willing to (be paid to) ship them to the opposite corner of the country for other similarly 'bad' idea exploration?
I was thinking about machining off an eighth of an inch at a time, building up a cross section, importing it into solidworks and designing a head I could actually cast, but I can always find another LS head and work on it. Hell, this could go so sideways that I need to start from scratch.
I will say that the reason I got these heads for free is that one of the bolt holes is messed up. Previous owner tried to drill out a snapped bolt and it ended up walking on him into the water jacket. If that still works for you, I can send them off.
Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:If this runs at the challenge you win. I don't know exactly what you win, but you will win something.
One day: Crown vic frame, 70s F-series body, this on a 300, manual trans.
In reply to Mr_Asa :
It does look very close. So given the internal curved / odd shaped passages how is the welder going to get to them to weld them leak free.
On bolt holes (unthreaded) make sleeves that are a press fit.
Bold plan is bold.
This is so good. I'm rooting for the mightiest of victories.
L5wolvesf said:In reply to Mr_Asa :
It does look very close. So given the internal curved / odd shaped passages how is the welder going to get to them to weld them leak free.
On bolt holes (unthreaded) make sleeves that are a press fit.
A) Cut around the combustion chamber, weld, seal it back up and grind it smooth.
B) Massive bevel, seal the bottom, don't care about the top of the water jacket.
I'm leaning towards B, to get an idea of what I'm thinking: below, the red would be approx what I think would need to be beveled back to (again, open to any and all thoughts on that) and then fill it with multiple passes. The green, do a sleeve like you said, and weld the top and bottom to create a seal, or cut it off and weld it up inside then weld the bolt hole back on.
The rest of the water jacket appears to be fairly straightforward, unless I'm missing something obvious
wheels777 said:You will have the remove the intake side on the bolt hole to get the outboard side welded. Use a Mig to rebuild the inboard side of the hole and rebore and machine the top side.
I was thinking that I could just weld the outside to give it structure, drill it oversized, press in a sleeve, then weld the top and bottom of the sleeve.
Black is the normal head, red is the drilled out part, press in the blue and then weld top and bottom.
Again, anyone sees anything completely wrong with what I'm planning on doing, please speak up. I'm just saying what I think will be easiest with my skill level, tools available, and assorted things like that
Please suggest a new way of doing whatever I'm talking about. If nothing else I turn it over in my head and it helps unlock something else.
Mr_Asa said:B) Massive bevel, seal the bottom, don't care about the top of the water jacket.
don't care about the top of the water jacket
HUH? the pressure in the cooling system will care. Well . . . maybe it wont because you wont have any if the top of the water jacket isn't water tight
In reply to L5wolvesf :
For clarification: Yellow is welded with no thought. Just some dumb ape going over it with whatever he has that's better at sticking things together than his boogers. The green and red we've already discussed. Blue is what I'm discussing when I say "top of the water jacket" although maybe I should have said "roof of the floor of the water jacket"
The internal passages of the water jacket I'm not that worried about, its the external parts, and especially that red area that I'm really focusing on
Mr_Asa said:Driven5 said:If you don't have plans for your two end scraps, would you be willing to (be paid to) ship them to the opposite corner of the country for other similarly 'bad' idea exploration?
I was thinking about machining off an eighth of an inch at a time, building up a cross section, importing it into solidworks and designing a head I could actually cast, but I can always find another LS head and work on it. Hell, this could go so sideways that I need to start from scratch.
I will say that the reason I got these heads for free is that one of the bolt holes is messed up. Previous owner tried to drill out a snapped bolt and it ended up walking on him into the water jacket. If that still works for you, I can send them off.
Honestly, your plan for them is probably better than my own, as (assuming your sharing the data) it would help more than just me... But also me. Alternatively, if the two opposing ends are similar enough that you would get enough data from segmenting just one of them, I'd still be interested in the other regardless of busted into water jacket or not. No worries either way.
In reply to Driven5 :
What are you planning? I have no clue when I will get to this.
I want to try to build an LS based V4, but have no clue when I'll get to it either. I am working with ideas ranging from chopped up stock parts (eg the Chet/Jerry Wilson midget V4), to a built-up assemblage of custom fabricated bits (eg Pete Aardema LSR I4). For the former, I need only to figure out how to cap the ends. But for the latter, I want to explore ideas that can be made from machined aluminum rather than cast... Which junk head sections are perfect for.
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Regarding the warping issue, I'm not sure how it would actually hold up, but have you considered not-welding it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKIKsDfRAcs
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Since your two ends are from the same head, and already lost the blade kerf, did you add .160+kerf (+any for maching the ends flat and true) to both sides of the middle pair? Or are you planning to do something else, like add filler pieces between the sections, to balance out the bore spacing difference?
In reply to Driven5 :
First off, that video is amazing. I'm not sure I'm going to use those welding rods, but damn I kind of want to now. Maybe with some of the auxiliary crap I'm going to have to fabricate.
Yeah, I planned for at least some blade loss. On the left of the pic below is the head that I cut in half, on the right is the head I cut the end pieces off of. It has about that much overlap on the other side as well. I am going to chuck the entire set of pieces into a mill so I can figure out the head bolt differences, so I'll mill the ends flush and so they fit nicely. Come to think of it I might use press-in sleeves for all of the bolt holes and then cut new holes throughout.
Nothing to add, just want to make sure I keep up with the progress.
I have wanted to build up a 300 since that Maverick that was floating strong the internet like 10 years ago with a stock 300 and a turbo running 11s or similar.
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