Mid engine miata equivalent?

I forgot that the MRS/MR2 had the relatively proven and easy (is it really easy?) Camry v6 swap is this the 2z something

In reply to Jaynen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_GR_engine

So sort of a sidebar here, but why is the 2nd gen MR2 unloved?

If you can wait a bit: Abarth awesomeness

unevolved wrote: So sort of a sidebar here, but why is the 2nd gen MR2 unloved?

I'm guessing weight.

In reply to unevolved:

The 3rd Gen, IMO is:

Ugly, heavy and seemed a bit underpowered and completely useless for day to day use or even weekend trips. It was a bit too hardcore for the average person, but not quite hardcore enough for the trackday folks.

Lotus got it right with the Elise because it was very pretty and much more hardcore with less weight and more power (for more money of course)

Basically instead of a great follow up to the 1st and 2nd gen MR2, they seemed to have lost the plot, styling and usability wise.

At least that is my perception.

In reply to turboswede:

Gotta disagree with you on a few things. Comparing the SW20 to an Elise is a bit unfair given the cost disparity. Sure, compare it to a Miata, and the MR2s that came before and after, but not a car that costs more than 5-6 SW20s.

It's heavier than it should be, but has similar power to weight to early Miatas. It's also gorgeous, by far the best looking MR2. And as a daily driver, mine gets 30-35 mpg and can do virtually every errand I've ever needed to run. It's as boringly reliable as every other Toyota; I'm pretty sure the 5SFE will join the cockroach and the Twinkie in surviving the apocalypse.

It's fun as a racecar, too, and can even haul its own Hoosiers internally without a trailer.

Will wrote: In reply to turboswede: Gotta disagree with you on a few things. Comparing the SW20 to an Elise is a bit unfair given the cost disparity. Sure, compare it to a Miata, and the MR2s that came before and after, but not a car that costs more than 5-6 SW20s. It's heavier than it should be, but has similar power to weight to early Miatas. It's also gorgeous, by far the best looking MR2. And as a daily driver, mine gets 30-35 mpg and can do virtually every errand I've ever needed to run. It's as boringly reliable as every other Toyota; I'm pretty sure the 5SFE will join the cockroach and the Twinkie in surviving the apocalypse. It's fun as a racecar, too, and can even haul its own Hoosiers internally without a trailer.

About the Hoosiers. Really? I am not doubting you at all I just can't picture it. Can one fit in the frunk?

In reply to Will:

Sorry, I was talking about the 3rd Gen, not the Second. My mistake.

The 2nd Gen is an awesome rig and the 1st is a shameless ripoff of the X-1/9 but you know its actually reliable (just wish they had copied the targa as an option)

In reply to Feedyurhed:

Yes. You can fit a 225/50-14 on a 14x6 (but not a 7) in the frunk, another behind the passenger seat, and two 225s on the 7" wide wheels on the passenger seat. Still have plenty of room in the trunk for tools, jack, helmet, suitcase, etc.

Turboswede: I was just surprised, since that was the first time I'd ever heard someone say the SW20 was ugly. Understood now.

turboswede wrote: In reply to unevolved: The 3rd Gen, IMO is: ...heavy... Lotus got it right with the Elise because it was very pretty and much more hardcore with less weight and more power (for more money of course)

Huh? The 3rd gen is the lightest all three generations of MR2. It's 2100lbs, so like 100lb heavier than an Elise.

Styling and usability points may be low, but I'm not sure how you could build a lighter modern car with all the stuff like 43 airbags, cupholders, cruise control, a leak free top and working A/C (which were all notably lacking in my Elise).

FWIW I never enjoyed the Elise's extra power that much because it was in the rarely usable area of 6200RPM to the 8500RPM redline. The MR2 spyder I test drove seemed to have at least as good or better around town manners. I'm sure it would be no contest in favor of the Elise on a track, but then how often as a percentage of time do you spend on the track with a street driven car?

I think the SW20 comparison to a Miata doesn't apply because it's a larger heavier car that is more of a GT than a sports car. Having driven all three generations of MR2 and both NA and NB Miatas the SW20 doesn't feel nearly as happy changing directions quickly to my uncalibrated butt.

Which of the generations mr2 have the best support in terms of suspension/wheels/tires etc? Do all of them do the relatively simple camry v6 (or whats the 2zzz I keep seeing mentioned) swaps or is that just the gen 2 which is larger?

If I bought/built one it would be because a) it eventually has more potential than the NA miata b) its a cheaper version of a cayman/elise (no all plastic body etc) and mid engine will somehow be more fun than a miata :P and like my NA it would be an autox/weekend toy with occasional track use

unk577 wrote: ND miata

Unless there's a top secret version that I'm not aware of with the engine behind the seats, I suspect that you're referring to the marketing version of "mid-engine", where the "engine is behind the front axle line". I've always thought that this was a ridiculous description, because if the front-most bolt on the front of the engine (wherever the manufacturer chooses to be considered the absolute front of the engine) is 1mm in front of the front axle line, it is a front engine car, but if I shave 2mm off the head of this bolt, are you saying that I've converted my car to a mid-engine car? I don't think so.

/rant

Jaynen wrote: Which of the generations mr2 have the best support in terms of suspension/wheels/tires etc? Do all of them do the relatively simple camry v6 (or whats the 2zzz I keep seeing mentioned) swaps or is that just the gen 2 which is larger? If I bought/built one it would be because a) it eventually has more potential than the NA miata b) its a cheaper version of a cayman/elise (no all plastic body etc) and mid engine will somehow be more fun than a miata :P and like my NA it would be an autox/weekend toy with occasional track use

1sts gen has a 4age. I would just build or boost this motor. I love this motor, will probably have another AW11

2nd Gen MR2 takes the camry V6s with out much work.

3rd Gen the 2ZZ (4cl) is a bolt in pretty much. I have this motor in my Matrix and it's nice, sounds great.

Oh we had a base model Matrix for some time. Is the 2zz the one from the XR?

Jaynen wrote: Oh we had a base model Matrix for some time. Is the 2zz the one from the XR?

Came in the XRS, 6speed as well.

Ours was a base so I don't think it had that motor. Is the 2zzz also timing chain like the base engine was?

I love my zzw30, it's as far from heavy lol. It involves you like few other street cars Ive driven in anger. Super predictable chassis, I ftd most events I attend so either its a competitive car or I'm just awesome . The 2zz swap is one of the easiest swaps in the history of the automobile, you even keep the 1zz wiring harness, plug and play bolt up, done. Aftermarket is as plentiful as you could ever want. Storage is minimalist but doable as a dd proposition. Check out my build blog: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/00-mr2-spyder-commute-attack-car/68482/page1/

As far as aesthetics go, I don't find them an ugly car, but people like what they like. Each to their own.

This is mine.

Jaynen wrote: Ours was a base so I don't think it had that motor. Is the 2zzz also timing chain like the base engine was?

Yeah, just think of your base car with 50 more hp and 8200 redline.

It's definitely better looking than my miata right now at least :) Thanks for the link to the build thread.

carbon wrote: I love my zzw30, it's as far from heavy lol. It involves you like few other street cars Ive driven in anger. Super predictable chassis, I ftd most events I attend so either its a competitive car or I'm just awesome . The 2zz swap is one of the easiest swaps in the history of the automobile, you even keep the 1zz wiring harness, plug and play bolt up, done. Aftermarket is as plentiful as you could ever want. Storage is minimalist but doable as a dd proposition. Check out my build blog: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/00-mr2-spyder-commute-attack-car/68482/page1/ As far as aesthetics go, I don't find them an ugly car, but people like what they like. Each to their own. This is mine.

Your build makes me wish I had more money :)

A 2zz spyder is in my future. Just need to depreciation or get a car with a bad motor.

unevolved wrote: So sort of a sidebar here, but why is the 2nd gen MR2 unloved?

They got crappy drivetrains (went from the 4AG to a truck engine) and the Turbo models were expensive. IIRC they retailed at $70k in 1997.

Knurled wrote:

unevolved wrote: So sort of a sidebar here, but why is the 2nd gen MR2 unloved?

They got crappy drivetrains (went from the 4AG to a truck engine) and the Turbo models were expensive. IIRC they retailed at $70k in 1997.

Oh, ok. I've always kind of wanted one, I think they look really cool. So at this point, that just means an engine swap is basically necessary, I guess.

In reply to unevolved:

I'd totally do the 3l V6 swap.

If the weights I've seen online are believable, the aluminum-block MZ-series V6s are actually lighter than the stock 5SFE. The more common swap is the VZ-series, which are about 70 pounds heavier than the 5SFE.