Mill/Lathe questions

Well, I'm at a point in a couple of current projects and a future project that I should be making my own parts.

What should I be looking for in a mill/lathe machine? I was going to go with a multi machine, is that wrong? I'm sure that I'll get confidence as I go, but are these machines easy to learn?

I only have second hand experience (friends and associates who've bougth them), but it seems the best way to get into this is to join one of the forums on the subject (again, no experience... the LAST thing I need to think about right now...) and learn about what to look for and where.

I know a guy who builds custom bike frames and has slowly built a very nice collection of mills and lathes for not a horrible amount of money (I'd say $10K tops for everything, not including some the bike frame-specific jigs he bought)... A couple of mills, a couple of lathes... etc...all really old stuff - mostly WWII era... some of it needed some work, but you simply can't buy tools that well made these days...

If I had room/money, I'd be right there next to you...

Confucius say: Do one thing well, do many thing E36 M3ty.

The combination units can be a pain, generally, the lathe is too short and too small, same for the mill.

Buy a lathe on it's own first, you can mill on a lathe but you can't turn on a mill.

I work in a tool store, we sell the chinese lathes like the Grizzly and whatnot. I own a 1932 Southbend lathe.

My southbend cost me $400.00 used and it's just as worn-out as a brand-new chinese lathe but is better quality. Add a quick-change Aloris toolpost to a southbend and you've got a great machine.

Shawn

Trans_Maro wrote: Buy a lathe on it's own first, you can mill on a lathe but you can't turn on a mill.

I mount the work to the spindle here every now and then so you can in fact turn on a mill but its painful if you have a really small mill.

We have one of those combinaton mill/lathe things for the Lab at work. It probably wouldn't even make a good boat anchor. The swing of the lathe, that's the distance from the center of the chuck to the nearest thing it will hit, is about 6", almost cut in half if the carriage gets under the chuck. I use the mill to square off cubes of metal that were cut on a saw, just refacing and squaring up the edges; .050 cut stalls the thing out.

Take your time, go to auctions or going-out-of-business sales and buy something old. You just can't buy a good solid poured steel frame piece of equipment nowdays. You can update it with digital readout and all the chachkas, but a good solid base is hard to beat.

Bridgeport is one of the better names in mills, mostly because of their versatility. The head can be tilted, hold mills, chucks or a collet chuck. Because of their popularity hard to come by.

Think about what you're going to be doing with it and then add 25%. It's easier (safer) to make a big machine to smaller work than to overwork a small one. A speed lathe is one that holds collets and can sing along at about 4000 rpm, handy for smaller parts. Nice to have but not a necessity. Brand names like LeBlond, Cincinatti, G&L carry spares and expendables going back decades. A good quality machine will always be a good quality machine, the is/was hermaphodite Chinese stuff can't ever be.

Don't be scared off by the older flat belt drive units, yeah they look all Dr. Seuss but even 90 years old they can still cut within .0005

Dan

Materials Technician
Quality Control Inspector
Tool Maker
R&E and Prototype machinist.

Look for places like this: http://www.govdeals.com/eas/catSelector.cfm?mycat=65&sortoption=ad&startrow=1

Edit: Just for S&Gs I typed lathe in the local CL search, came up with a surprising number worthy of looking at.

http://albany.craigslist.org/tls/1097901049.html

http://albany.craigslist.org/tls/1119207844.html

http://albany.craigslist.org/tls/1117494478.html

http://albany.craigslist.org/tls/1099675957.html

Thanks 914, for the local craigslist adds, now I want to go buy more equipment. $1800 for the Bridgeport with tools seems like a really good deal. The hard part might be powering some of this equipment depending on what it is set up to run (1 vs 3 phase, 240V - 480V)

GhiaMonster wrote: Thanks 914, for the local craigslist adds, now I want to go buy more equipment. $1800 for the Bridgeport with tools seems like a really good deal. The hard part might be powering some of this equipment depending on what it is set up to run (1 vs 3 phase, 240V - 480V)

Not a problem to power them.. 110v motors are available OR.. run 220v and get a 3 phase converter.. You can DIY a 3 phase converter for pretty cheap.

GhiaMonster wrote: Thanks 914, for the local craigslist adds, now I want to go buy more equipment. $1800 for the Bridgeport with tools seems like a really good deal. The hard part might be powering some of this equipment depending on what it is set up to run (1 vs 3 phase, 240V - 480V)

$1800 for a running driving Bridgeport with tools is a really good deal. Like ignorant said, get a 3 phase converter. Run it like it was supposed to be run.

I just picked up a mill (thread in off topic) but it really needs a lot of work. I mean a LOT of work.

The combination lathe/mills are next to useless. Something to think about is going to a local trade school for classes in machine work. Learn on their machines with their tools and maybe get some of your projects done while your at it.

My problem is I don't have a shop or warehouse space. Just a little old 20'x20' garage for the wife and kids car. But you can pickup a mill pretty reasonable.

There used to be a giant used machinery place in Bellwood, Illinois and I would just go and browse and buy old machinist stuff.

Kid included? http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/tls/1128533186.html

deal on tools http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/tls/1132953610.html

Thanks. Not exaclty what I wanted to hear, but it's what I expected. I'll search through craigslist for an older used mill.

thanks again. --Rob

I have an 8 year old Shoptask 2000 multi lathe/mill/drill. I bought it with some accessories; extra chuck, divider head, 4 position quick change tool post. It will swing 11", takes MT-3 tooling, etc. I'm generally pleased with it, but I respect it's limitations, both in capacity and precision. For 90% of the fab work I do, it's capable enough, and for the rest I either use my WWII era South Bend, or send it out. I can make suspension parts, face pistons, build intake manifold parts, etc. The old stuff is still the best, if you can find it, and keep it running properly. Check out Lindsay Books for anything and everything you ever wanted to know.

http://www.lindsaybks.com/

Carter

the best lathes and mills were made during WAR times , we americans can really get excited over machines for KILLING. better accuracy and better steels in manufacture. I own some stuff including a lathe 14" swing,, and a INDEX vertical mill, date of manuf. 1966 and 1970, thet are very good machines. watch out for hi production units tho, they can be worn out. older machines are priced affordable. and for home use you do not need a CNC, but DROs are nice for repeat work. but check out your available ELECTRIC POWER, 220V 3 phase makes life a lot more easier, single phase is rough, for instant reverse.

Man i love those machines,, the limit is only YOUR IMAGINATION. Ron

I've got a 1940s era South Bend 9" lathe that is perfect. Paid $450.00 for it. The mill I have is a HF small one. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44991

The mill is a little small sometimes, but it gets the job done. My shop is only 12X16 so space is a premium.

Buying used machines is the best route most times, particularly if you can get tooling with it. The lathe I added a quick change tool post and a 2.5 hp DC motor and variable speed drive and replaced both chucks (3 and 4 jaw). Before you know it your $450.00 machine is $1000.00. The mill was about $500.00. Had to buy a clamp kit, an assortment of mills, a fly cutter, a parallel set, collet set, centering set, and what not. Don't forget your measuring and layout tools. The machine that costs twice as much but comes with a lot of tools might be worth it,

Speaking from experience, there is nothing worse than getting a new or new to you machine home and realizing you can't use it with out another $500.00 worth of stuff.

Good luck in your hunt. It is a lot of fun taking a chunk of metal and turning it in to something useful. Or looking at that custom machined widget and knowing that you can run out to the shop and make one yourself.

Trans_Maro wrote: you can mill on a lathe but you can't turn on a mill.

BZZZ!

I have turned parts on a mill. They need to be small enough that the stock fits into a tool holder, but it can be done. I actually did a small production run on a CNC mill with one tool hanging out of one side of the vice, a drill bit sticking up out of it, and another tool sticking out the other side. It was a pain to setup, but it worked.

Ok guys, I know you like busting my chops about not turning on a mill.

Here's the simple question:

Which would you buy first, lathe or mill?

For me it's a lathe. You use it more often for more things.

A lathe is the only machine that can reproduce itself.

You can even turn a cube in a lathe without a milling attachment.

I love my old southbend, they're great little machines and you can find them anywhere. Get a model A or B if you can, I have a model C and I really whish I had a power crossfeed and quick-change gearbox.

The Q/C toolpost is the best upgrade you can make on an older machine. I didn't realise how much lantern toolposts sucked until I changed over.

Any older machine will work well for you. Atlas, Logan, Hercus, LeBlond or Southbend are all great units for a home shop.

Ok, you can turn on a mill, just not easily and no threading.

Here's the place to go: http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/ http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/index.php?s=f77b3b9db02d46c5a115b32d2632e16a

Shawn

I would personally buy a Mill first, but that's because I'm generally trying to make brackets and stuff with hole patterns, more than I'm trying to make round stuff. That said, they are both must have for a serious enthusiast.

GhiaMonster wrote: The hard part might be powering some of this equipment depending on what it is set up to run (1 vs 3 phase, 240V - 480V)

Years ago, this was a problem.. but modern technology to the rescue!

Google-search: "single-phase to three-phase variable speed drives". Single phase in with three-phase out.

Prices have come down a ton in recent years. From what I've seen, these are cheaper than old genset-style 1-phase to 3-phase converters.

Another plus is VSD's are generally "soft start" by default - in other words, they ramp up to the desired speed/frequency rather than the hard current "hit" when a larger motor (when connected to relatively small residential systems) starts. The one caveate is you won't really be able to take full advantage of the speed capabilities since the motor in an old mill/lathe may not be rated for VFD use (can handle a variable Hz instead of standard 60 Hz).

Although now that I'm thinking about it, most of these old mills and lathes have a dial for varying the speed. I don't know enough about them to know how they accomplish this... VFD's have been around for decades (but were expensive), so this may be how they are set up. Dave - how does yours work?

I have a nice Bridgeport and a 12x40 Sharp lathe in my prototype shop at work, and use of a Heavy 10 South bend and a Millrite at my parents house. Sadly my basement shop at home has a tiny convoluted staircase for entry, so all I could really get in when I tooled up to do some consulting projects was a 3-in-1 machine.

Yes, I'll admit it. I have a Smithy Granite 1324. That said, once I'd essentially rebuilt it, scraped in a couple surfaces so the mill head was in tram, and completely disassembled, cleaned, sealed to keep the casting sand particles at bay the headstock w/ real American Timken spindle bearings - it's fine for the small stuff I need to do at home.

I have Chinese Aloris copy toolposts on the front and back (cutoff tool upside down to the rear of the spindle works awesome) and a set of Shooting Star DROs installed. It has literally paid for itself several times over with paying work.

If I had space and access I'd buy a Bridgeport or Index mill and a Clausing or South Bend 13" lathe in a heartbeat, but my situation is what it is. I'd say I use the Smithy nearly every day to do something. Last night I was reconfiguring a couple closets with Elfa shelving and I needed a chrome closet pole that was longer. I had 2 short ones so I faced them to length and turned a coupler from a bit of 1" Nylatron and pushed it together.

My 80-something dad says "I just don't see how you can run a house without a lathe"

Below are some pics of the tools and machines. Nothing big or fancy, just stuff to get the little jobs done, almost all from the local Craigslist like the welders, plasma and compressor in the garage. Wait for the deals and be ready to commit.