Non Directional Track tires?

Forget for a moment about suspension set up.  On my E46, I typically run 200tw Street tires (usually re-71r's), which are all directional.  I Chew through a set in about 2 days and am thinking true R Compounds would actually last longer due to better heat resistance.

I'm looking for something ~100tw, that is not directional.  No matter what I change in my setup, the outside of the driver side tires ALWAYS wears out first.  Rotating front to back is not enough, I need to be able to switch sides.

Anything out there I Should be looking at?  (245/40-17)

Thanks!

I ran RE71Rs on the G35 last year. You can flip the tires on the wheels and mount them on the other side of the car. 

I plan to do the same with the 595RR that are on it now. 

I've also been looking at Toyo R888Rs for the Abomination. I don't think they are directional but I'm not 100% sure about that. 

Toyman01 (Generally Supportive Dude) said:

I ran RE71Rs on the G35 last year. You can flip the tires on the wheels and mount them on the other side of the car. 

I plan to do the same with the 595RR that are on it now. 

 

Thanks, I've done that a couple times, And It's worked out well, but don't have a tire machine at home, and every tire place near me I've tried has refused to re mount used tires.  The only times Ive been able to get it done is when the "Tire Truck" is at the track(which is way less often than I need tires)

Do you know if true slicks can be run in either direction?  I don't really want to go that far, but I'm tired of throwing away 2 perfectly good passenger side tires, and 2 half worn driver sides...

I've run r888r's before...  99% sure they are directional, but I guess i should double check...

If you're buying a set of tires every two track days (which is to say nothing of the other associated expenses), then a tire machine seeming 'expensive' is probably more a problem of perception than a hard fact. Have you considered just buying a cheap one?

Something to keep in mind - for most directional 200TW tires, the only directionality is the tread pattern itself. So they're just fine to run spinning the wrong direction as long as there's no standing water around. The other thing is RE71Rs have never really been the track tire of choice for anything but time trials. If you're more concerned about longevity than outright speed, there's multiple other 200TWs that would be better choices, without dealing with the expense and wet weather issues of r comps.

Vigo (Forum Supporter) said:

If you're buying a set of tires every two track days (which is to say nothing of the other associated expenses), then a tire machine seeming 'expensive' is more a mental hurdle than anything else. Have you considered just buying one?

This is what I did. You can buy a tire machine and balancer for the cost of a couple of set of race rubber. If you are willing to let it be known that you have them, you can mount and balance for your local racers and probably pay for the machines. 

Purple Crack is not directional but if you are eating the sides out of the tires, you will destroy them quick. They like camber.

Spend some time on your alignment and find a place that will do them to your specs. Then your tires can look like this when you are done with them. I don't have to flip them anymore. This is two TTs and 5-6 autocrosses. They start on the front until the outside edge is getting beat up. Then they move to the back until done. 

Vigo (Forum Supporter) said:

If you're buying a set of tires every two track days (which is to say nothing of the other associated expenses), then a tire machine seeming 'expensive' is probably more a problem of perception than a hard fact. Have you considered just buying a cheap one?

Yeah, I've considered it many times.  I'd definitely break even in short order.  The real problem is I just don't have the room in the garage for one.  It's bursting out in to the driveway as it is, lol

Just researched the r888r's, and though the are "asymmetric", they do not appear to be directional.  Not THAT expensive either, (probably cheaper than re-71's).  Between better heat resistance and the ablitity to switch sides, I have to think i could at least get 3 days out of a set!  (my "home" track is Carolinas Motorsport park, a renowned tire eater!)

Toyman01 (Generally Supportive Dude) said:

Vigo (Forum Supporter) said:

If you're buying a set of tires every two track days (which is to say nothing of the other associated expenses), then a tire machine seeming 'expensive' is more a mental hurdle than anything else. Have you considered just buying one?

This is what I did. You can buy a tire machine and balancer for the cost of a couple of set of race rubber. If you are willing to let it be known that you have them, you can mount and balance for your local racers and probably pay for the machines. 

Purple Crack is not directional but if you are eating the sides out of the tires, you will destroy them quick. They like camber.

Spend some time on your alignment and find a place that will do them to your specs. Then your tires can look like this when you are done with them. I don't have to flip them anymore. This is two TTs and 5-6 autocrosses.

I WISH my tires looked like that!  and they sorta do on the passenger side.  Not being an setup expert, I'm pretty afraid to start running different L/R Camber...

dps214 said:

Something to keep in mind - for most directional 200TW tires, the only directionality is the tread pattern itself. So they're just fine to run spinning the wrong direction as long as there's no standing water around. The other thing is RE71Rs have never really been the track tire of choice for anything but time trials. If you're more concerned about longevity than outright speed, there's multiple other 200TWs that would be better choices, without dealing with the expense and wet weather issues of r comps.

I want the Fastest tires!  I need them to mask my lack of talent!  The most important thing I've learned about driving in the rain over the years: I don't find it fun, so when it's wet, I'm going home anyway...

I've run tires "backwards" before, but never really felt comfortable with it.  I'm sure you are right that it doesn't matter in the dry, but it bothers me for some reason...

In reply to cbaclawski :

CMP is a tire eater. Most of the above RE71R is out there somewhere. 

There are rumors that it will be paved this year at some point. That should help with tire life. 

If you are looking for durability, you might try something like the Falken Azenis 615s. We run those on two Lemons cars and have no issues running 24 hours with 6 tires. That will cost you some grip. 

Also if you are running TTs, Hoosiers are probably going to bump you up in the safety requirements. 

Toyman01 (Generally Supportive Dude) said:

In reply to cbaclawski :

CMP is a tire eater. Most of the above RE71R is out there somewhere. 

There are rumors that it will be paved this year at some point. That should help with tire life. 

If you are looking for durability, you might try something like the Falken Azenis 615s. We run those on two Lemons cars and have no issues running 24 hours with 6 tires. That will cost you some grip. 

Also if you are running TTs, Hoosiers are probably going to bump you up in the safety requirements. 

I do run TT's, but I'm fully caged and meet all the safety requirements(at least in the e46)...  I think it's only SCCA that has increased safety requirements sub 200tw, I don't think it matters what tires with NASA, except that there is a modifier/penalty for anything sub 100tw.  I'm really not trying to win any competitions in either though.  I just like to chase my personal best laps and try to improve.  I'd be lying if I said I don't look at SpecE46 times and try to get as close as I can - Though I am neither Spec, nor as good as those guys...  (I really only register for TT's because I like being grid by time as it leads to more clean laps per session)

Pretty sure we've met before a couple years back @ a SCCA TT at CMP...

The Proxxes r888r's you suggested earlier are on the short list!

cbaclawski said:

dps214 said:

Something to keep in mind - for most directional 200TW tires, the only directionality is the tread pattern itself. So they're just fine to run spinning the wrong direction as long as there's no standing water around. The other thing is RE71Rs have never really been the track tire of choice for anything but time trials. If you're more concerned about longevity than outright speed, there's multiple other 200TWs that would be better choices, without dealing with the expense and wet weather issues of r comps.

I want the Fastest tires!  I need them to mask my lack of talent!  The most important thing I've learned about driving in the rain over the years: I don't find it fun, so when it's wet, I'm going home anyway...

I've run tires "backwards" before, but never really felt comfortable with it.  I'm sure you are right that it doesn't matter in the dry, but it bothers me for some reason...

I can't tell how much of that is serious versus joking but if you're really looking for the fastest tires, you're probably not going to be happy with r888rs.

As far as alignment, definitely don't run asymmetric camber. But you should be able to crank it up to the point where it wears the heavily loaded tire evenly and maybe even wears the inside of the other tire. If you can't get that with a reasonable setting then you need either more spring/bar or to stop over driving the front end. Or to loosen up the rear some.

dps214 said:

cbaclawski said:

dps214 said:

Something to keep in mind - for most directional 200TW tires, the only directionality is the tread pattern itself. So they're just fine to run spinning the wrong direction as long as there's no standing water around. The other thing is RE71Rs have never really been the track tire of choice for anything but time trials. If you're more concerned about longevity than outright speed, there's multiple other 200TWs that would be better choices, without dealing with the expense and wet weather issues of r comps.

I want the Fastest tires!  I need them to mask my lack of talent!  The most important thing I've learned about driving in the rain over the years: I don't find it fun, so when it's wet, I'm going home anyway...

I've run tires "backwards" before, but never really felt comfortable with it.  I'm sure you are right that it doesn't matter in the dry, but it bothers me for some reason...

I can't tell how much of that is serious versus joking but if you're really looking for the fastest tires, you're probably not going to be happy with r888rs.

As far as alignment, definitely don't run asymmetric camber. But you should be able to crank it up to the point where it wears the heavily loaded tire evenly and maybe even wears the inside of the other tire. If you can't get that with a reasonable setting then you need either more spring/bar or to stop over driving the front end. Or to loosen up the rear some.

Fastest Tires as in at least as fast as the top street tires. (I'm really only competing with myself, so I don't want to give up what I already have in terms of grip)  I really don't feel like I overdrive, If anything I'm a little too gentle.  I could probably add a degree of Camber, but I'm already at ~-3, with pretty stiff bar and stiff springs.  I recently put stiffer springs on the back to help get the car to rotate better(worked), but that really didn't change much in terms of tire wear(it helped a little).  I think it's just one of those things at this track, all the fast turns and sweepers are right handers, and the pavement is a cheese grater.  (I've experimented with pressures, but it got pretty unstable pretty quick)

I run NT01s on my E46 (M3), and am getting 5-ish track days out of them.  Probably not as sticky as the RE-71Rs despite the lower treadwear number (treadwear is a lie), but more resilient at the track.  Tread is non-directional.

I'll second NT01 for track day use and run them on my miata. They can be run on either side of the car and even though they have an "inside" and an "outside", I know several people who flip them on camber challenged cars.

+1 for NT01s. Square 275/35/18 or 275/40/17 if it's an m3. Square 255/40/17 if not. Last for a ling time and get better as they wear.

Another that's RIGHT on pace with NT01 and may even outlast them are the Maxxis RC1. They wear like absolute iron but do not like slip angle nearly as much (if you like to drive "loose") and are not nearly as good in the breaking zone. Otherwise they should be similar laptime wise.

In reply to Toyman01 (Generally Supportive Dude) :

While Hoosiers are not directional per-se.. they have very specific instructions for mounting them for the first few heat cycles or else the carcass will start to separate.

ROTATIONAL GUIDELINES FOR TIRES WITHOUT DIRECTIONAL ARROWS

Every Hoosier race tire has a four character serial code embossed into ONE sidewall of the tire. All Hoosier DOT tires will also have two additional codes as required by the Department of Transportation. (Example: J7AB 4AX8 3710)

CIRCLE TRACK RACING TIRES: (Includes both dirt and asphalt tires)
Hoosier tires must be mounted with the serial code located toward the infield.

ROAD RACING TIRES: (Includes catalog numbers beginning with 43, 44, 45, 46)
In most cases, Hoosier tires used in Road Race applications should be mounted with the serial code toward the center of the vehicle. Once a tire has been run in the proper orientation it is acceptable to remount the tire in the opposite direction to even out the wear.​​​​​​

 https://www.hoosiertire.com/technical/

I know Toyo has similar instructions but are even harder to follow IIRC

In a nutshell mount Hoosiers with the 4 digit serial code inwards, and the 12 digit full DOT code(last 4 are MFR date) OUTwards for the first heat cycles.