Non ST-model Fiestas banned from autocross?

Some people (looking at you Adrian _Thompson) really need to step back and take a breath before hurling more insults. Seriously folks , chill. Damn.

Safety is safety. It is Job #1, it is everybody's job.

If the cars are 2 wheeling in stock shape, they are right to not allow it. Autocross is supposed to be one of the safest forms of motorsports. Word spreading of cars rolling WILL damage the sport. As far as the DSP cars, you can tune about anything to do it, and they have the tunability to correct.

I think if a car was two-wheeling on a regular basis (regardless of what it is) they would be asked to park it until a corrective action is taken. That is a safety stewards JOB.

Line's gotta be drawn somewhere.

Rollover risk is a perfectly legitimate reason to ban a car from running in stock trim. The one time I ever saw a car unable to pass tech at an autocross he was given a codrive from another competitor. Codrives in my region are easy to come by and everyone is more than willing to do everything in their power to make sure all involved have fun and are able to "compete". There are sometimes people angry about rules and interpretations of rules as some folks take the competition element very seriously. That said disagreement is natural and all is done my everyone involved to reach a solution that works for everybody. Safety is the most important aspect and it must be taken very seriously. People getting hurt and tearing up there equipment is no fun and that is the point of the whole thing.

First year the ST focus came out.. I was at a Toledo airport event in Ohio and an orange ST focus on hoosiers def was two wheeled when I was a worker.

Did very well in our local OVR "Governors cup".

Richard Nixon wrote:

bludroptop wrote: Bring a suitable car.

No, thank you. I will keep on autocrossing my two ton+ boats. Or, to quote The Dude: "You're not wrong, Walter. You're just an shiny happy person."

I sure hope there are 2 walter's on here

Bobzilla wrote: Some people (looking at you Adrian _Thompson) really need to step back and take a breath before hurling more insults. Seriously folks , chill. Damn.

this … and coming from Bobzilla … you know you've crossed the line if he has to call you out

wbjones wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: Some people (looking at you Adrian _Thompson) really need to step back and take a breath before hurling more insults. Seriously folks , chill. Damn.

this … and coming from Bobzilla … you know you've crossed the line if he has to call you out

Fair point. Mea culpa. I've edited my posts to remove the SCCA slurs to just say SCCA. But my point stands. This is a car has been on sale since 08 or 09 without falling over. Now we reduce the grip and ban it!

I think course design is an important thing here. Maybe try to come up with more guidelines regarding left-right or right-left transitions at speed. It seems like most of the two wheel videos I see are when a car is turning one way, then rapidly has to change directions the other way, and is moving at a pretty good pace.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

wbjones wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: Some people (looking at you Adrian _Thompson) really need to step back and take a breath before hurling more insults. Seriously folks , chill. Damn.

this … and coming from Bobzilla … you know you've crossed the line if he has to call you out

Fair point. Mea culpa. I've edited my posts to remove the SCCA slurs to just say SCCA. But my point stands. This is a car has been on sale since 08 or 09 without falling over. Now we reduce the grip and ban it!

it fails the rule … I understand that you think it should be allowed … write a letter … ranting here won't do a bit of good …

in the past maybe it passed the rule … it doesn't now

In reply to eastsidemav:

This and many autocrossers have hands that are way too fast. Its a great recipe for upsetting a car.

eastsidemav wrote: I think course design is an important thing here. Maybe try to come up with more guidelines regarding left-right or right-left transitions at speed. It seems like most of the two wheel videos I see are when a car is turning one way, then rapidly has to change directions the other way, and is moving at a pretty good pace.

Are you saying we should remove slaloms? Transitions?

In reply to ProDarwin:

You'd be able to go faster

ProDarwin wrote: Are you saying we should remove slaloms?

Clearly the problem is turning so if that part is eliminated there is no longer problem. Such a simple solution...why did it take 4 pages to figure this out?

Jeff

drag racing FTW

So this is really interesting:

I have done a drivers school and a two autocrosses on my 2 and got to ride in the fastest 2 STX (I think that is the class). I know the 2 can be a bit "giggly" and perhaps a bit tippy, I feel it in normal driving on stock tires, cars should not lean on on ramps I believe... However, I never felt like I wanted to roll over.

I know the 2 needs some good dampening and to be lowered about an inch but I drive like a ham fisted idiot and I have no idea how I could roll a car in a controlled environment.

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Seems like this thread is about the only place on the internet without cat pictures.

So.......

Seems like I remember reading on the internet (so it's GOT to be true ) that when the Fiesta had the facelift ('13 or '14), that Ford softened at least the spring rates (maybe damping as well??) of the non-ST's for the US market because of the ride complaints. If this is true, it might contribute to why it wasn't really an issue talked about the first couple years of the Fiesta's production? I've driven a '12 sedan, but not at an actocross and while it was definately more tippy than say, a Miata, I didn't get the impression that it was going to roll at any time and actually seemed better than most of the competition.

I had a new 7k mile 2015 Fiesta SE as a rental for 3 weeks. For a stock econotoaster, It has a surprising amount of grip.

It's a rental and well, hoonage happens. I found it very confidence inspiring at the limit. Right up to the moment where bad E36 M3 started to happen. I understand why one might not want a lot of these on an autocross course.

ProDarwin wrote:

eastsidemav wrote: I think course design is an important thing here. Maybe try to come up with more guidelines regarding left-right or right-left transitions at speed. It seems like most of the two wheel videos I see are when a car is turning one way, then rapidly has to change directions the other way, and is moving at a pretty good pace.

Are you saying we should remove slaloms? Transitions?

That's a bit extreme. Don't forget the "at speed" part. Perhaps it would be wise to try to come up with some sort of guidelines regarding how sharp any transition can be dependent upon the expected speed of cars going through it. Probably could completely fix the problem, but could help.

eastsidemav wrote:

ProDarwin wrote:

eastsidemav wrote: I think course design is an important thing here. Maybe try to come up with more guidelines regarding left-right or right-left transitions at speed. It seems like most of the two wheel videos I see are when a car is turning one way, then rapidly has to change directions the other way, and is moving at a pretty good pace.

Are you saying we should remove slaloms? Transitions?

That's a bit extreme. Don't forget the "at speed" part. Perhaps it would be wise to try to come up with some sort of guidelines regarding how sharp any transition can be dependent upon the expected speed of cars going through it. Probably could completely fix the problem, but could help.

If you reduce the "sharpness" or complexity of a transition, a car is just going to navigate it quicker, resulting in the same problem. I.E. if you take a 60ft spacing slalom and make it a 90ft slalom, the car will transition left-right-left at the same rate, it will just have more forward velocity.

Yeah, you could take other measures to keep speeds way down... and make autocrossing even more lame than it is perceived to be.

eastsidemav wrote:

ProDarwin wrote:

eastsidemav wrote: I think course design is an important thing here. Maybe try to come up with more guidelines regarding left-right or right-left transitions at speed. It seems like most of the two wheel videos I see are when a car is turning one way, then rapidly has to change directions the other way, and is moving at a pretty good pace.

Are you saying we should remove slaloms? Transitions?

That's a bit extreme. Don't forget the "at speed" part. Perhaps it would be wise to try to come up with some sort of guidelines regarding how sharp any transition can be dependent upon the expected speed of cars going through it. Probably could completely fix the problem, but could help.

NO NO NO …. this isn't public school teaching (teach to the lowest common denominator) … don't punish the 99% to accommodate the 1%

In reply to wbjones:I don't want to kill or even maim the 1%. Not that I claim to care about them. Some call that Darwin's theory working at it's best.

It has to do with the ambulance chasers after the first big time rollover that will result in no property owner will ever allow autocrossing on their lot again. Why? They're freaked out by the ambulance chasers! And if there was a rollover on their lot, I couldn't blame them.

You wanna talk about body roll...I have auto crossed a couple of these

(not my pic or me driving)

They have the most dramatic body roll of any car I've ever driven, but I never felt like they were going to tip over.

I think I just learned or saw how an anti roll bar works...Thanks!

Rupert wrote: In reply to wbjones:I don't want to kill or even maim the 1%. Not that I claim to care about them. Some call that Darwin's theory working at it's best. It has to do with the ambulance chasers after the first big time rollover that will result in no property owner will ever allow autocrossing on their lot again. Why? They're freaked out by the ambulance chasers! And if there was a rollover on their lot, I couldn't blame them.

that's the reason that the SCCA bans certain cars