so how bad is it to DIY the timing belt on a PT non-turbo, and what are the flat-rate tricks?
so how bad is it to DIY the timing belt on a PT non-turbo, and what are the flat-rate tricks?
Not too bad., Don't know the tricks. What year? Some early ones had an inferior indication method, so there was nothing positively saying that the two cams were lined up, and I got it wrong the first time and had to go back and do it again. The worst thing about it is the fender, which means that the motor has to come waaay up and waaay down to get at stuff, but I did it all without swearing and without breaking the AC lines open.
Is it like the Neon where you don't know what parts you need until you get it apart? I know I was asked to do a timing belt and tensioner on a Neon and my research told me there were multiple running changes in the design. Some of the design change parts were readily available, some were not, and not all were interchangeable.
That wasn't the case for me. I bought them all ahead. There were a few differences, but they were all model year based. It wasn't any worse than a Civic, just different.
Bad, expect it to take all day, maybe more. They say to disconnect AC but I remember doing it without.
Kenny_McCormic wrote: Bad, expect it to take all day, maybe more. They say to disconnect AC but I remember doing it without.
It took me five hours, I think, and I am not a super quick mechanic.
Did it break or is this routine maintenance? Do your water pump also.
If its like the 1st gen neon its not bad. You do most of it through the wheel well, need a jack to hold up the motor because you will remove the motor mount on that side. Two different kinds of tensioners possible. All pretty easy with the internet to guide you. If you have a lot of miles its a good time to change the waterpump as its under all the timing belt stuff.
In reply to AngryCorvair:
The packaging is very tight on the PT but the actual engine work/parts are similar to a Neon motor. Remember to get all the ground straps off to free up engine movement. A friend of mine worked on his mom's and just dropped the whole engine trans assembly since he had to do shocks as well as timing belt and engine mount
I suggest the preemptive replacement of.
Once you get the grille and rad out of the way, its actually easier than a Neon. I've been told that my opinion is wrong. The transmission end mount is different, and lets you lift the engine higher. You can also lift it without breaking the pressure switch on the compressor when you forget to unplug it.
The crank pulley is one of the particular points on these- they are not keyed, so its a tight friction fit, and needs a good 3 jaw puller. There is a specific puller which makes the job easy. It has a pushrod that goes through the bolt hole to push on the crank, instead of having to push against the head of the bolt after its been loosened. Reinstallation is easy if you have a torch- a bit of heat on the center hub and it taps on easy. No heat and you beat the hell out of it.
Find a ruler. When you are looking crooked, its not so easy to be sure the timing marks are directly along the centerline of the cams. Its easy to have one advanced and one retarded by a single tooth.
Change all the seals, and the water pump. Use decent quality parts. Dayco makes a kit with everything. Like this one:
Edit: The turbos suck to do.
AngryCorvair wrote: so how bad is it to DIY the timing belt on a PT non-turbo, and what are the flat-rate tricks?
It freaking sucks.
The easiest way to get the motor mount plate out, I've found, is to first remove the cylinder head.
The motor mount plate is the thing that the motor mount (which is recessed into the body because berkeley you) attaches to. It's also the thing that half the accessories attach to, has a whole lot of hidden FU bolts, and is also most of what serves as a timing cover, so it has to come out.
It CAN come out with the head on the engine. There is a precise angle of jacking the engine to where it can come out. No, I don't remember how far up I had to jack the engine. That memory has been repressed.
D2W wrote: If its like the 1st gen neon its not bad.
It's like the 2nd gen Neon, but DOHC and not SOHC. And less room to work.
In reply to Knurled:
Holy crap dude, I didn't have any troubles like that at all.
In reply to tuna55:
Planets must have been aligned for you, I remember lots of experimental lifting and lowering of the engine and getting out damn near every wrench, socket and extension to get all the various bolts out.
You just have to lift the engine way higher than you think is safe.
Streetwiseguy wrote: You just have to lift the engine way higher than you think is safe.
I distinctly remember that too high would also make it difficult.
OTOH, I'm used to some things requiring that you loosen the longside CV joint so that you don't pull the inner axle apart. If the inner CV does separate, they just pop right back together no problems, the boot will hold the rollers in place.
Transverse applications like this make one really appreciate how easy to work on Audis are. Let's see you do a ten minute operation to move the inner fender out of the way on a transverse car...
Did one as a favour once. I was prepared for the worst but it wasn't all that bad. I put a mark on a tooth on each of the pulleys and a corresponding mark on the tooth of the existing timing belt. I transferred these marks unto the new belt and put everything back together with the marks lined up. No worries about trying to eyeball the timing marks.
friend told me the car quit running while going down the road. by the time i found out about it, he'd already had it towed in and it was already under the knife. from the sounds of it, it's definitely a job i could do, but i'm kinda glad i didn't have to. ;-)
Not that bad but this job will make you cuss a fair amount. A few thing I have learned from doing this job a few times.
REMOVE the MAP sensor, bolt's to the top back side of the intake and is easy to snap off (trust me).
Watch the upper radiator hose when raising the the engine, I have seen radiator crack after replacing the T-belt.
Check the engine mount in the frame rail, most are broken and this is the time to replace it.
The crank pulley can be a real motherfather to get off, even with the factory tool.
I would discharge the A/C system as this will give you more room to work and allow the removal of the A/C comp.
No need to remove the radiator.
I would replace the belt, belt tensioner, idler pulley, and water pump. NAPA and Mopar have nice kit's for this.
Have fun
Paul
AngryCorvair wrote: friend told me the car quit running while going down the road. by the time i found out about it, he'd already had it towed in and it was already under the knife. from the sounds of it, it's definitely a job i could do, but i'm kinda glad i didn't have to. ;-)
It's an interference engine, so he likely has other troubles...
In reply to bgkast:
IIRC they rarely bend valves, it won't do piston-valve contact, only valve-valve contact, unless it breaks when really would up the cams tend to stop more or less in sync and nothing gets hurt. The one I did broke the belt and survived.
In reply to Kenny_McCormic:
Interesting, I thought the non-turbos had valve/ piston contact if the belt snapped. I know the turbos are non-interface.
The 2.4 was specifically designed as a non-interference engine because they were claiming that the timing belt was a "lifetime belt" that never needed replacement. They supposedly used some fancy material and shielded it better from engine heat, but just to be on the safe side, they made the engine non-interference.
The 2.4 has really odd pistons- They are weirdly domed, and the flat portion of the piston top stops at least 1/4 inch down the hole. They definitely don't bend.
Berkleying nightmare is the nicest thing I've ever hear about them. Most say much worse...
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