Pushrod V6 question

I know Mopar had a V6 that was basically a 318 with two cylinders lopped off and I think GM did, too. (Izzat the 3.8?) Did Ford ever do one?

Does anyone know of an aluminum version of any of those three?

None of the Big Three did an aluminum pushrod V6. Aftermarket blocks for most of them do exist, though.

The 3.9 Mopar was based on the 5.2 Magnum engine (don't call it a 318, that's different) and we all know about the Chevy and Buick connections but Ford did do one, sort of - the 3.8 is very, very loosely based on Windsor and Cleveland architecture. All three makes have made various other pushrod V6s, not just V6s made on V8 tooling.

If you want compact and light V6, look into the GM 60 degree units. Some of the newer ones are around 200hp and they're a very compact package.

The GM 4.3 is a 350 short two cylinders. I don't know if Ford did anything like that (V8-V6), but I do know the 4 banger found in the Tempo is a 200 six with two cylinders gone awol.

There, I have dumped the thimble that held my knowledge.

I concur on the 60 degree GM V6. Everyone talks all kinds of smack about them but I have seen quite a few with TONS of miles that were still running.

stroker wrote: I know Mopar had a V6 that was basically a 318 with two cylinders lopped off and I think GM did, too. (Izzat the 3.8?) Did Ford ever do one? Does anyone know of an aluminum version of any of those three?

I don't believe Ford did. The 3.8 V6 would be the right size for a 5.0 with two cylinders cut off, but the 3.8 doesn't really share any Windsor architecture.

People talk smack about them? They're bulletproof. I've only ever had to replace one, which is pretty impressive given that it seems like 75% of the cars we see are GM front-drives and the vast majority of THOSE are powered by some form of 60-degree.

The only issue beyond plastic intake gasket failure (solution: metal backed gaskets, ignore for the next 200,000mi) is the post-2001ish models have 8mm rocker bolts instead of 10mm. Cylinder #1 (frontmost/rear bank) runs a little hotter than the others because it's shortchanged in the coolant circuit and can get an air pocket in the head if cooling system is improperly filled. It eventually runs hot enough to grab the exhaust valve, and it yanks the threads out of the head. Fortunately it can be fixed with a Heli-Coil without removing the head or even the intake manifold.

The GM 3800 V6 is basically a cast iron rover v8 short two cylinders. They are surprising light, as in not far off from the current GM V6, especially when the series 2 came out and it got decked an inch. Issues with intakes blowing out and the gaskets failing are now solved.

Knurled wrote: None of the Big Three did an aluminum pushrod V6. Aftermarket blocks for most of them do exist, though.

Well...define the "aftermarket"?

GM/Chevy still makes an aluminum V6 block and SBC-esqe 18 degree based off the 4.3 V6 in their performance catalog. But if you are handy enough you can cut up a SB2.2 head and make it work on the V6.

Buick 3.8's are covered by TA Performance.

Chrysler has, far as I know, never forayed into anything dealing with V6 "performance". Just the normal "trinket" BS of different PCM's, CAI's, etc.. Nothing what I would call hardcore.

Ford had the old 4.5L SVO V6 for NASCAR Grand National racing back in the late 90's.

Ranger50 wrote: Well...define the "aftermarket"? GM/Chevy still makes an aluminum V6 block and SBC-esqe 18 degree based off the 4.3 V6 in their performance catalog. But if you are handy enough you can cut up a SB2.2 head and make it work on the V6.

"Aftermarket" = "not production car, not remotely junkyardable".

I've never had the head off of a 4.3 but I'd imagine that it shares the 5-point bolt pattern of the small-block, not remotely similar to the SB2.2. But then if you're able to cut a middle cylinder out of a head and valve cover and intake manifold and weld it back together, then plug-welding a deck and putting in new head bolt holes and cooling passages would be a piece of cake

Buick 3.8's are covered by TA Performance.

Yup.

Ford had the old 4.5L SVO V6 for NASCAR Grand National racing back in the late 90's.

And, from what I remember from the old SVO Catalog, the 4.5 shared nothing with any production engine other than the bellhousing pattern, and the fact that it was a V6. Besides being an odd-fire crank, just about every major dimension was different. On the other hand, I understand that they'd slowly, painfully engineered themself a nice and reliable little race engine. And then BGN went to compression-limited V8s instead.

My truck came with one of those 3.9 engines, they are pretty much bullet-proof.

Knurled wrote:

Ranger50 wrote: Well...define the "aftermarket"? GM/Chevy still makes an aluminum V6 block and SBC-esqe 18 degree based off the 4.3 V6 in their performance catalog. But if you are handy enough you can cut up a SB2.2 head and make it work on the V6.

"Aftermarket" = "not production car, not remotely junkyardable". I've never had the head off of a 4.3 but I'd imagine that it shares the 5-point bolt pattern of the small-block, not remotely similar to the SB2.2. But then if you're able to cut a middle cylinder out of a head and valve cover and intake manifold and weld it back together, then plug-welding a deck and putting in new head bolt holes and cooling passages would be a piece of cake

Actually, you only run into the SB2.2 problem you mention when you look at the RoX version. That is why there is a RoX version block available.

And, from what I remember from the old SVO Catalog, the 4.5 shared nothing with any production engine other than the bellhousing pattern, and the fact that it was a V6. Besides being an odd-fire crank, just about every major dimension was different. On the other hand, I understand that they'd slowly, painfully engineered themself a nice and reliable little race engine. And then BGN went to compression-limited V8s instead.

Actually, it shared a bunch of production engine details, they just weren't from any one given engine. I spy 351 Cleveland mains, SBC large journal con rod big ends, 351W stroke length, near 351 Cleveland deck height.... Also, to start off, they, Ford/SVO, started with an even-fire crank then went odd-fire.

Back to the original question, what about the 3.9 in the Lincoln LS? Looking at my FRPP catalog, it mentions it is Jag V8 based.

Chevrolet also had a 229 3.8 V6 that, if I recall correctly, was two cylinders off of a smallblock V8.

Ranger50 wrote: Back to the original question, what about the 3.9 in the Lincoln LS? Looking at my FRPP catalog, it mentions it is Jag V8 based.

The 3.9 is a DOHC V8...doesn't really answer the original question.

Will wrote:

Ranger50 wrote: Back to the original question, what about the 3.9 in the Lincoln LS? Looking at my FRPP catalog, it mentions it is Jag V8 based.

The 3.9 is a DOHC V8...doesn't really answer the original question.

Oooopps, my bad reading a E36 M3ty copy of that page. Carry on.

Hoop wrote: Chevrolet also had a 229 3.8 V6 that, if I recall correctly, was two cylinders off of a smallblock V8.

that was the "other" 3.8 that everyone forgets about.. it was a 305 missing a middle cylinder on each side.. it was later offered with a bigger bore to make it into a 350 with a middle cylinder missing on each side- that was the 4.3 for which production started in the early 80's and will end with the introduction of the all new LS derived 4.3 V6 in the new trucks next year.

GM's other 3.8- the one that was found under the hood of millions of fwd cars built until a few years ago, and the one everyone knows about- was a derivative of the Buick 231, which was an engine design that came about in the early 60's some time.. i think it was originally 180something ci, but grew as large as 252 in the 83-84 time frame in some cars.

The 231 has an interesting story. It was originally 225ci, being 3/4 of a Buick 300 V8. Then Buick sold the tooling to Jeep. Then Buick bought the tooling back and stretched it slightly to 231ci. It even got an even fire crank in '77!

The 4.1 wasn't all that common ('81-82? Somewhere round there, yeah) and isn't much of a performance block compared to the late 231/3.8. The Series II is way better than the old stuff in every way possible, but there isn't as much of an upgrade path as with the old style blocks.

I've always heard the Ford 3.8 was nearly a copy of the Buick 3.8, and it shares few parts with a V8

In reply to BoostedBrandon:

No, no, and no.

It's actually kinda similar to the Buick in the weird distributor/oil pump arrangement stuffed into the timing cover instead of the block, but that's about it.

The ford 4.2 has aluminum heads, and lots of torque.

Is the yamaha motor in the SHO alu?

Onetrillionrpm wrote: The ford 4.2 has aluminum heads, and lots of torque.

Especially in SC trim. (Okay, so the SC is a 3.8...but mine is a 4.3...)

dean1484 wrote: Is the yamaha motor in the SHO alu?

AFAIK, iron block. Same block as every other 3.0 Vulcan out there.

I have the 3.8 Series II in my GTP. It really is a sweet powerplant. Lots of torque, decent economy, and they are basically reliable as the sun. Nearly endlessly upgradable too. Lot's of turbo 3.8s making 500+ hp.

Will wrote:

Onetrillionrpm wrote: The ford 4.2 has aluminum heads, and lots of torque.

Especially in SC trim. (Okay, so the SC is a 3.8...but mine is a 4.3...)

I love those cars! What are your numbers on it?

Ever try autocrossing in it? I recall a gentleman in the nwoa scca chaper that ran a sc tbird and did pretty good considering its size, and SLA suspension.