I was thinking the exact thing as the rear seats are beige and black as well as the door panels, but that is good with me :-)
I was thinking the exact thing as the rear seats are beige and black as well as the door panels, but that is good with me :-)
I did question this but am good with it if they swapped in sports seats!
Car looks sharp and has low miles (73K)
Interestingly I now daily a 135i and previously daily'd an NA miata so perhaps I could offer some insight.
I would personaly take a GTI over the 1 series. All in, the GTI will be cheaper to maintain, offers more practicality, and stock-for-stock it drives better. Here's some of my gripes on the 1 series:
- The 1 series A/C evaporator will fail if it hasn't already. It's a dash-out job. Don't worry about the dash starting to rattle after the replacement, it will rattle before the replacement too.
- The rear subframe bushings are trash and the car's back end wags every time there's a load through the suspension, which makes it feel very unsettled and unconfidence inspiring. Inserts help but it's a bandaid. A full RSF bushing replacement is required to not feel like garbage. I definitely understand how Jeremy Clarkson looped it trying to go in a straight line during that one top gear video.
- Atleast with regards to the N54 engine cars, parts are becoming more rare and they're getting obscenely expensive to repair. Parts prices are stupid. Injectors - $2700. High pressure fuel pump - $1100. Waterpump - $500. I tagged a garbage can that fell off the back of a truck and had to replace a headlight housing. New was over $1000. The cheapest used one I could find at the time was $600.
in other news if you actually want a 1 series and you're interested in an N54 car I'm selling mine. 6 speed, n54, sport package, dark gray metallic over saddle brown interior. new england car but parked for the winter. For the record, I don't recommend buying mine or any N54 car unless you're a glutton for punishment.
In reply to toconn :
N52s have none of those issues except the water pump. The subframe bushing inserts work quite well in my experience, though that's strictly in road use. My evaporator did fail, but I have not seen widespread reports of this happening. The leak was so slow (refill once a year in the spring) my indy questioned whether it was even worth doing.
In reply to toconn :
Appreciate the real world experience. The car I was looking at is a 128i, so no turbo issues but the insight on the rest of the issues with the car are good to know. I agree that a GTI is the most practical daily, as for both overall maintenance costs and performance. I know a cheap R32 is going to be problematic so I'll keep looking.
How about a Jetta GLI?
If GTI is in consideration, then I'd think Civic Si and Ford Focusor Fiesta ST should be as well
I am definitely looking at the Fiesta ST. Also found this one on FB that looks really interesting. 2016 Ecoboost Mustang, higher miles (131K) but checks all the boxes, anything I should know about these? Looks like the ecoboost version takes a heavy depreciation hit.
The 128i has a great engine and handles decent, but a 'sports car' it is not. Everything about it, from the interior to the driving dynamics, feels like a 2-door coupe/convertible based on a sportyish sedan... Because that's exactly what it is. It does everything good, but nothing great. It's quite capable, but here is no sense of occasion when driven sedately, nor drama when driven aggressively. Not much says mid-level management drone like a low level Bimmer, which is appropriate because that's a pretty good description of it's personality too. Driving it on the street is corporate-approved levels of fun as outlined in a memo. It doesn't really get particularly interesting until things are well beyond reasonable and prudent for the road and conditions. I was surprised by the number of interior quality shortcomings for a 'premium' vehicle. While the sport seats are good for comfort, and a big step up from the standard seats, they look much better at holding you in place than they are. Sport seats wise, I think power had memory, but manual offers easier assess to the rear. So pick your poison. With the right exhaust, the N52 does sound fantastic, especially over 4k rpm.
The S197 Mustang is a bit bigger than the 128i, there's no getting around that, but the 128i isn't exactly a lightweight either... Especially when coming from a multi-Miatae (including as daily/winter beater) background. On paper the BMW is objectively better by most, if not all, measures outside of straight line acceleration... But subjectively, it has considerably more character too. The 'premium' trim interior actually reminds you that you're not driving an appliance, even if most of it looks and feels cheap. It nicely balances a sense of occasion when cruising, with a sense of drama when hooning. It's a pony car that learned to handle. Where my 128i was likable, my Mustang was lovable.
Within the 1st 100 yards (test) driving a BRZ onto a public road, I knew that the 128i and S197 aren't even in the same league when it comes to being a 'practical sports car'. What it lacks in sense of occasion when cruising compared to the S197 (still better than the 128i) it more than makes up for in the accessibility of its superior sense of drama on the street. Inside and out, parked or blitzing a clover leaf onto the highway, it looks like a sports car and feels like a sports car. I really don't know of a car that better fits the description of 'semi-practical sports car - fun car as a daily'. This is currently leading the list for my next car fitting that same description.
Rx-8 
Driven5 said:The 128i has a great engine and handles decent, but a 'sports car' it is not. Everything about it, from the interior to the driving dynamics, feels like a 2-door coupe/convertible based on a sportyish sedan... Because that's exactly what it is. It does everything good, but nothing great. It's quite capable, but here is no sense of occasion when driven sedately, nor drama when driven aggressively. Not much says mid-level management drone like a low level Bimmer, which is appropriate because that's a pretty good description of it's personality too. Driving it on the street is corporate-approved levels of fun as outlined in a memo. It doesn't really get particularly interesting until things are well beyond reasonable and prudent for the road and conditions. I was surprised by the number of interior quality shortcomings for a 'premium' vehicle. While the sport seats are good for comfort, and a big step up from the standard seats, they look much better at holding you in place than they are. Sport seats wise, I think power had memory, but manual offers easier assess to the rear. So pick your poison. With the right exhaust, the N52 does sound fantastic, especially over 4k rpm.
The S197 Mustang is a bit bigger than the 128i, there's no getting around that, but the 128i isn't exactly a lightweight either... Especially when coming from a multi-Miatae (including as daily/winter beater) background. On paper the BMW is objectively better by most, if not all, measures outside of straight line acceleration... But subjectively, it has considerably more character too. The 'premium' trim interior actually reminds you that you're not driving an appliance, even if most of it looks and feels cheap. It nicely balances a sense of occasion when cruising, with a sense of drama when hooning. It's a pony car that learned to handle. Where my 128i was likable, my Mustang was lovable.
Within the 1st 100 yards (test) driving a BRZ onto a public road, I knew that the 128i and S197 aren't even in the same league when it comes to being a 'practical sports car'. What it lacks in sense of occasion when cruising compared to the S197 (still better than the 128i) it more than makes up for in the accessibility of its superior sense of drama on the street. Inside and out, parked or blitzing a clover leaf onto the highway, it looks like a sports car and feels like a sports car. I really don't know of a car that better fits the description of 'semi-practical sports car - fun car as a daily'. This is currently leading the list for my next car fitting that same description.
As a counter-point, I adore our 128i M-Sport 6-speed. I've owned something like 15 BMWs over the years, many of which have been M cars. Granted our 128i has all the things you can do to it (e9x M3 suspension components, intake, headers, exhaust, coilovers, bigger/wider wheels) but I always look forward to driving it and enjoy it once I'm in it.
Looks like I need to go do some test drives. I had basically the ultimate Miata with the Mazdaspeed, it had 300+ hp and was razor sharp in everything with basically the entire FM catalog thrown at it as well as lots of track time tuning it to perfection. Unfortunately it was not able to be MD emissions tested and realistically it was a little too hardcore to drive on the street. I am not looking for a race car, I have some of those in my shop for future builds, so this one can be tamer, but life is too short to drive boring cars.
In reply to dherr (Forum Supporter) :
It's also going to be a Mk5, vs a Mk4 R32 at that price point
I did a similar search to yours when I was coming out of a NB Miata in 2022, and landed on a Toyobaru. From a practical standpoint it does everything you'd need, while being fun to drive at reasonable speeds. Full endorsement on those factors.
The engine did go boom, though, and the interior build quality has been kinda wack with lots of annoying buzzes and rattles. For more practical use and less HPDE use where a 86/BRZ would really shine, I'd go for a 1-series, 2-series or GTI in retrospect.
Driven5 said:On paper the BMW is objectively better by most, if not all, measures outside of straight line acceleration... But subjectively, the S197 has considerably more character.
For clarification, since it's too late to edit.
I'll be that guy - The nicest E55 AMG $10k can buy you.
In reply to Driven5 :
You hit the nail on the head when it comes to the 128i. It's a good car, but man, it has zero pizazz. If you're looking to be completely anonymous in traffic while still able to have a little fun, it may suit you very well.
I'll second (or third) the BMW Z4 and to get maximum performance and market durability, make it a Z4M if you can find and afford a good one.
I've owned dozens of cars but the Z4M coupe I have is probably the best 'out of the box' model I have owned - all the others needed to be 'optimized' to my standards of performance.
Driven5 said:The 128i has a great engine and handles decent, but a 'sports car' it is not. Everything about it, from the interior to the driving dynamics, feels like a 2-door coupe/convertible based on a sportyish sedan... Because that's exactly what it is. It does everything good, but nothing great. It's quite capable, but here is no sense of occasion when driven sedately, nor drama when driven aggressively. Not much says mid-level management drone like a low level Bimmer, which is appropriate because that's a pretty good description of it's personality too. Driving it on the street is corporate-approved levels of fun as outlined in a memo. It doesn't really get particularly interesting until things are well beyond reasonable and prudent for the road and conditions. I was surprised by the number of interior quality shortcomings for a 'premium' vehicle. While the sport seats are good for comfort, and a big step up from the standard seats, they look much better at holding you in place than they are. Sport seats wise, I think power had memory, but manual offers easier assess to the rear. So pick your poison. With the right exhaust, the N52 does sound fantastic, especially over 4k rpm.
The S197 Mustang is a bit bigger than the 128i, there's no getting around that, but the 128i isn't exactly a lightweight either... Especially when coming from a multi-Miatae (including as daily/winter beater) background. On paper the BMW is objectively better by most, if not all, measures outside of straight line acceleration... But subjectively, it has considerably more character too. The 'premium' trim interior actually reminds you that you're not driving an appliance, even if most of it looks and feels cheap. It nicely balances a sense of occasion when cruising, with a sense of drama when hooning. It's a pony car that learned to handle. Where my 128i was likable, my Mustang was lovable.
Within the 1st 100 yards (test) driving a BRZ onto a public road, I knew that the 128i and S197 aren't even in the same league when it comes to being a 'practical sports car'. What it lacks in sense of occasion when cruising compared to the S197 (still better than the 128i) it more than makes up for in the accessibility of its superior sense of drama on the street. Inside and out, parked or blitzing a clover leaf onto the highway, it looks like a sports car and feels like a sports car. I really don't know of a car that better fits the description of 'semi-practical sports car - fun car as a daily'. This is currently leading the list for my next car fitting that same description.
While I agree that it is not a sports car in the traditional sense, my impressions of the 128i are quite different from yours. I find the sport seats excellent in both comfort and bolstering (mine are manual with inflatable bolsters). The interior may be a bit cheap in places, but it's holding up a lot better than some German cars of similar vintage. Your criticisms of the performance seem to damning with faint praise: no drama handling, performance limits well beyond what can be used on the street. It's not as engaging as smaller, lighter cars, and perhaps the styling can be argued to be a bit anonymous (though I don't feel that way, especially lowered a touch), but for the intended use case, I think many of your negatives are actually positives.
To the OP, test drives are a must. Too many subjective factors involved.
02Pilot said:I find the sport seats excellent in both comfort and bolstering (mine are manual with inflatable bolsters).
I'll agree that the bolstered areas feel great, but there is zero lateral shoulder support. So the more the loads increase, the closer it feels to trying to keep my body stable in other (less bolstered) seats. It's not that it's worse than the alternatives, but that despite the appearance and hype it also isn't appreciably better either. Like multiple other areas of the car, it's like they spent all their time and money engineering the first 80% to be great, then just called it 'good enough' for the last 20%.
The S197 seats weren't as well bolstered, but were less disappointing because there were no such pretenses.
In reply to Driven5 :
I've never noticed the lack of shoulder support in street use. Perhaps I'm not driving fast enough.
In reply to lemachin :
Yes, the BRZ's are more of the type of car I enjoy, but the quality of the interior is much like a WRX verse the german cars. I have a GTI and a 128i to go drive soon to look at as my next steps.
I just got done shopping a similar segment and ended up on an e93 328i 6-speed Convertible. Sporty enough, engine is seems reliable on paper, hard top convertible is kind of best of both worlds. I drove a 128i vert at similar money and really preferred the 3 series. It's definitely larger and heavier though. This one is in Chantilly, VA if you want to drive a 6spd one, the interior color knocked it off of my list, but it drives well. https://www.loudounmotorcars.com/details/used-2010-bmw-3-series/95728076
I'd also looked at G37s, various Civic Si generations, & Hyundai Genesis Coupes. Decided to go for a 'Vert and the N52 BMWs were the best of the options. I did like driving the Genesis and a V6 one was probably going to be the choice for a fixed roof.
Lexus IS seemed good on paper but I couldn't find a stick shift one to drive.
In reply to lemachin :
Yes, the BRZ's are more of the type of car I enjoy, but the quality of the interior is much like a WRX verse the german cars. I have a GTI and a 128i to go drive soon to look at as my next steps. Also found a nice A5 with low miles and a 6 speed to consider.
docwyte said:
In reply to dherr (Forum Supporter) :
It's also going to be a Mk5, vs a Mk4 R32 at that price point
I agree but I may have found a deal on a 2008 R32 with higher mileage but looks to be in good condition inside and out but has a problem with the headlights. Previous owner has swapped the replaced ballasts, igniters, bulbs, and the housings but only one side works so he thinks it might need a body control module and is throwing in the towel. If I can score this at a reasonable price, I'll have the cash to get all the maintenance up to speed. Is 5K too much given what it might need? Seems like that makes it much easier to drop 3K+ in updated maintenance, or is this just foolish thinking? Interior and exterior look great, mileage is 165k
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