Saturn D.D.?

I have been semi looking for a new DD and this is my best find yet. An '01 Saturn, 4 door, SOCH/5spd, $2600. Best part is my new $400 snow tires on the neon can swap right over to the saturn. A plus is the fact that the interior is much roomier up front than the first gens Saturns, I can fit in it!

Any thoughts on this? I dont exspect it to be fun, it will be my DD and the Neon will be my progect/ toy.

Saturn had been manufacturing that motor for 10 years by the time they bolted together that one. That's good practice.

At the time, the epa was estimating 29city 40hwy on those. don't know how it'd stack up with the new tests.

I would highly HIGHLY recommend it as a DD. There's really nothing to watch out for on that year.

These are supposed to be good on gas, tho I don't remember if the '01s continue the good rep of the earlier cars.

There is a posting about Saturns on here, probably under the Grassroots Motorsports heading...try searching for some advice there.

epa, 40 on the old standars, 36 with new

I had customers brag all the time about low 40's without serious effort.

I love cheap S-series cars, but that's just me.

Check if it's an oil burner. I know a few neighbors + relatives that purchased SL2's new and the engines started burning oil before 75k miles.

Oil burner, I drive a DOCH Neon. Oil consumtion is nothing new to me. But I will check for that.

twin cams were more susceptible than sohc's, and early dohcs where the worst. A late late SL1 like this should be good.

And the reason they do burn is that the rings get stuck in the piston grooves. You can soak 'em with seafoam overnight and do a world of good.

Are you sure about the wheels? Unless you have one of those odd ball early 4 lug neons, the wheels won't swap.

wheels wont, but tires are the same size, 185/65 R14. Have the shop swap them over.

buy it. its cheap to maintain and its cheap to buy. Just do it. My brother has one. doing 70-75MPH on the highway to Dayton (250 miles) i got 43MPG.

Its a great economy car.

Buy it

I've heard that the Saturns are not very DIY friendly, clutch jobs, starter motors, timing belt?

that's a good car. The twin cams did like to use oil. Engine mounts like to go. The Dex Cool loves to destroy water pumps and thermostats.

Engine coolant temp sensors like to destroy themselves.

I'd own another one. I thought it was fun to drive.

I was looking at what it would take to change the clutch on a saturn, yuck. They do seem to be popular and reliable tho.

I'm going to head back to the dealer on monday and take it out and such. I still need to resist the '81 corvette at the dealer for under $6K...

RussellH wrote: I've heard that the Saturns are not very DIY friendly, clutch jobs, starter motors, timing belt?

Yes and no. I'll concede that the clutch is a huge pain in the ass due to the engine cradle. The alternator is hard-ish, just jack the car up and take off the pass. wheel. It's not a complicated job. Everything else is, in my opinion, a snap. And they have a timing chain, not belt.

ignorant wrote: that's a good car. The twin cams did like to use oil. Engine mounts like to go. The Dex Cool loves to destroy water pumps and thermostats. Engine coolant temp sensors like to destroy themselves. I'd own another one. I thought it was fun to drive.

And for the record, 90% of the time the engine mount that fails is the one on top of the motor next to the pass side strut tower. They cost $35 at o'reilly's, require only a 15mm deep socket and a floor jack to replace, and take 5 minutes to do if you're a rookie.

ignorant is right, get the dexcool out. go ahead and replace the coolant temp sensor preemptively. They're very cheap, easy to swap, and having a good one contributes to better fuel economy. For some reason the pig -tail to the cts can go bad too.

That year SOHC should run to 36720928751 miles with 3000 mile oil changes, tire rotations, and the occasional $50 engine mount. And maybe the $10 temp. sensor right off the bat.

And yes, the clutch jobs are a bit of a pain, but not terrible. The starters are easy, just in an awkward place. I changed a starter in about an hour without having a clue what I was doing, so it can probably be done in 45 minutes or half an hour if you have a clue.

That's a good price. But you've been warned...the SOHCs, even in manual, will redefine the word "slow" for you

I'll concede that the clutch is a huge pain in the ass due to the engine cradle. The alternator is hard-ish, just jack the car up and take off the pass. wheel. It's not a complicated job. Everything else is, in my opinion, a snap. And they have a timing chain, not belt.

I worked at a dealer in 94-96. There was nothing you couldn't do in under 3 hours on that car if you had a lift. Replace the P/S pump shaft seal that leaks fluid down onto the alternator and the alt. will last forever. Change your oil like clockwork with a Saturn filter every 3k miles and oiling problems will be greatly diminished.

Twin_Cam wrote: 36,720,928,751 miles That's a good price. But you've been warned...the SOHCs, even in manual, will redefine the word "slow" for you

Wow, thats more miles than the $ the big three are asking for. As for the slow part... there is a reason I am keeping the R/T.

On the slow topic, how would a second gen SOHC manual compare to a first gen SOHC Auto. As I have logged a few hundered cramped miles in the later

Look into replacing the alternator... you have to remove the spindle, half shaft, a strut brace to get the alternator out and it must be done from underneath.

I mean no disrespect, but Saturn is a new company in the grand scheme, they try to make foreign reliability with American labor, and it just doesn't work.

I've seen more Saturn junk come in our shop than I care to remember. A 96 came in with a broken motor... I'm not kidding. The block broke (not cracked... broke) in HALF between the #2 and #3 cylinders. The owner complained that he was merging on the freeway, heard a loud bang, then was engulfed in steam.

I had to charge folks $300-400 just to change an alternator, the same for a clutch, and just giving one an alignment was a joke. You would align it, take it out for a test, put it back on the machine and it would be off. It wasn't that it had changed, its just that the unibody flexed enough that you couldn't get repeatable results.

I'm all for grassroots, but having worked for GM, I wouldn't own one if you paid me. If you want a good cheap commuter car, find a TDI. The 55 mpg will pay for itself a lot faster, especially given its resale value, cheaper parts, better reliability record, even though diesel costs more right now.

Or, grab a Tercel. I charge $187 for a timing belt replacement, and most of the accessories don't require a partial transmission disassembly to change. They can be found with 150k on them all day for $2500, they get 40+ mpg, and I find them to be more fun than a saturn. Still slow, but they're so light that it actually has a bit of kick to it.

Sorry, but I wouldn't feel right not saying anything and then later have you be upset that you bought it and it sucks. Maybe you'll have a great experience with it, but my guess is that once you own it and notice all of its cheap concessions you'll wonder why you spent money on it, and why you continue to dump crazy money on parts and labor for it.

curtis73 wrote: Look into replacing the alternator... you have to remove the spindle, half shaft, a strut brace to get the alternator out and it must be done from underneath.

....ok I hate people when people seem all high and mighty and correct things I say too, but that's just flat wrong.

I just did an alternator last week. Yes, you have to be under the car, but you unbolt the top bolt from under the hood, unbolt the bottom bolt from under the car, take the wheel well liner out, and it drops down and slides right out of the wheel hole. Turn your wheels to the left and you don't even have to take the tire off. There's definitely no strut brace removal, and definitely not a half-shaft!

And to answer the first-gen auto vs. second-gen manual question, night and day. '91-'94 SOHCs had 85 horsepower, and the '95+ ones had 100, plus they may have shortened the gear ratios slightly around '97 or '98.

100 hp...sounds like what I learned in, a '94 acclaim and '88 accord, 100 and 99 hp. I managed to get into trouble with the accord. Besides, I can just stick on over sized tires and deal with driving a slow car fast. i have been told it is a good learning exsperiance, FWIW.

*edit, and by over sized, I mean 195/60 R14 from 185/65 R14

curtis73 wrote: Look into replacing the alternator... you have to remove the spindle, half shaft, a strut brace to get the alternator out and it must be done from underneath.

Underneath, yes. Remove all that stuff-why? Its not hard at all you just have to be on your back for a bit.

curtis73 wrote: A 96 came in with a broken motor... I'm not kidding. The block broke (not cracked... broke) in HALF between the #2 and #3 cylinders. The owner complained that he was merging on the freeway, heard a loud bang, then was engulfed in steam.

I've seen that before too, but it was on a Honda. Its called accident damage if the body shop ignores the cracked block. Or they ran it out of oil-no way to prove it didn't after the block cracks and it all runs out.

curtis73 wrote: I had to charge folks $300-400 just to change an alternator, the same for a clutch, and just giving one an alignment was a joke. You would align it, take it out for a test, put it back on the machine and it would be off. It wasn't that it had changed, its just that the unibody flexed enough that you couldn't get repeatable results.

Thats highway robbery. Pretty sure the flat rate books list it for no more than an hour and a half. Its not the customer's fault you don't know what you're doing.

for the record, that extra hp in the sohc came primarily from adding mpfi and ditching tbi.

and curtis, I don't even know where to begin here. There's so much "what the heck are you talking about" in that post.
I'd love a point by point debate on the subject but I'm not sure it would be appreciated.