Scion FR-S prices

bravenrace wrote:

Joe Gearin wrote:

The0retical wrote:

Bobzilla wrote:

NOHOME wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: I'll take the new 270hp Gen coupe for $25k. Thank you. Oh... is this where we say "I told you" to those that said FR-S's wouldn't be overpriced?

That is funny because here in Canada the Genesis, the Mustang and the Miata all cost significantly more than the FRS/BRZ. I could not convince myself to repeat the Miata experience and the other two just are not fun to drive on a daily commute where I do 90% of my driving.

Great. I live in the US. Gen Coupes are $25k. FRS's are $30+k (or are until morons quit paying the jacked up price).

Not to needle you here but I would like to hear what you said about the Miata when it was initially released with the dealer markup. Was it overpriced at the time? Was it underpowered for what you get? Would you rather have a big GT/muscle car instead? Prices will come down on it dealers are just caching in on the 3 or 4 years worth of hype generated by the all the generated by Toyota. Some people just like small cars like the Miata or FR-S rather than a muscle car or a GT car which the Mustang and Genesis fall into respectively. Personally if I had been around in the 60s and 70s I'd have preferred the British sports car to a Mustang or Camaro. You're comparing apples to oranges with all the statements about numbers and I'm not sure it has the relevance you think it does.

+1 I can understand comparing on price, but the driving experience of the FR-S is much different than a Mustang or a Genesis Coupe. All 3 are great cars, and each has their strengths and weaknesses. We may as well throw the WRX, Civic Si, and MS3 in the discussion if we are comparing ALL cars in the $25-$30K range.

I don't see why not. Yes, they are different cars. But comparing content with price is a valid way of determining whether or not a car is a good value. In the end you get something for your money, and with the FRS, you don't get as much as you should, IMO. Even at sticker.

I think at sticker of the FRS you get way more then with the Genesis or Mustang. IMO.

93EXCivic wrote:

bravenrace wrote:

Joe Gearin wrote:

The0retical wrote:

Bobzilla wrote:

NOHOME wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: I'll take the new 270hp Gen coupe for $25k. Thank you. Oh... is this where we say "I told you" to those that said FR-S's wouldn't be overpriced?

That is funny because here in Canada the Genesis, the Mustang and the Miata all cost significantly more than the FRS/BRZ. I could not convince myself to repeat the Miata experience and the other two just are not fun to drive on a daily commute where I do 90% of my driving.

Great. I live in the US. Gen Coupes are $25k. FRS's are $30+k (or are until morons quit paying the jacked up price).

Not to needle you here but I would like to hear what you said about the Miata when it was initially released with the dealer markup. Was it overpriced at the time? Was it underpowered for what you get? Would you rather have a big GT/muscle car instead? Prices will come down on it dealers are just caching in on the 3 or 4 years worth of hype generated by the all the generated by Toyota. Some people just like small cars like the Miata or FR-S rather than a muscle car or a GT car which the Mustang and Genesis fall into respectively. Personally if I had been around in the 60s and 70s I'd have preferred the British sports car to a Mustang or Camaro. You're comparing apples to oranges with all the statements about numbers and I'm not sure it has the relevance you think it does.

+1 I can understand comparing on price, but the driving experience of the FR-S is much different than a Mustang or a Genesis Coupe. All 3 are great cars, and each has their strengths and weaknesses. We may as well throw the WRX, Civic Si, and MS3 in the discussion if we are comparing ALL cars in the $25-$30K range.

I don't see why not. Yes, they are different cars. But comparing content with price is a valid way of determining whether or not a car is a good value. In the end you get something for your money, and with the FRS, you don't get as much as you should, IMO. Even at sticker.

I think at sticker of the FRS you get way more then with the Genesis or Mustang. IMO.

I disagree. And that is why this car is not for me.

In reply to 93EXCivic:

What is all this "way more" that you get? Horsepower - No. Gas Mileage - No. Interior room - No. Lower price - No. So what is it that makes this car worth more? Don't tell me things like nimble handling, because that doesn't make it worth more, it makes it a more appropriate car to buy for someone who makes that a priority. What content does it have that makes it more valuable than the others?

bravenrace wrote: In reply to 93EXCivic: What is all this "way more" that you get? Horsepower - No. Gas Mileage - No. Interior room - No. Lower price - No. So what is it that makes this car worth more? Don't tell me things like nimble handling, because that doesn't make it worth more, it makes it a more appropriate car to buy for someone who makes that a priority. What content does it have that makes it more valuable than the others?

My guess is a toyota/Subaru badge.

Too each his own. It seems like a fairly priced car at MSRP to me. Ten years ago, it would have been perfect for me.

bravenrace wrote: In reply to 93EXCivic: What is all this "way more" that you get? Horsepower - No. Gas Mileage - No. Interior room - No. Lower price - No. So what is it that makes this car worth more? Don't tell me things like nimble handling, because that doesn't make it worth more, it makes it a more appropriate car to buy for someone who makes that a priority. What content does it have that makes it more valuable than the others?

Well to me the more nimble handling does make it worth more then the Mustang plus it is smaller and I like driving small cars a lot more then big ones and the Mustang is just bigger then I would want to drive everyday. Other the Abarth (I have a soft spot for little Fiats), the next closest priced car that I would consider buying comes from a car maker from the UK that starts with an L. And compared to that the FRS is cheap.

I'll take a 2-3yo GT500 shelby for south of 30k Alex........ the only real tradeoff is size/weight.

Edit: or a pair of Z3M coupes......Evergreen and Alpine White plz

I remember when the 350Z came out, and it had alot of problems related to pricing, and it's a useless 2 seat, harsh riding, premium only, no mileage, 3200lb monstrosity. It serves as an example, so we'll just have to wait and see.

In reply to 93EXCivic:

That makes it more appealing to you, not worth more money. What I'm talking about is content vs price, not things that are a matter of preference.

In reply to bravenrace:

If we are just talking about generic car with similar content, what would a similarly equipped Accord go for? $25K, probably?

bravenrace wrote: In reply to 93EXCivic: That makes it more appealing to you, not worth more money. What I'm talking about is content vs price, not things that are a matter of preference.

Well more appealing usually equals worth more money. I mean a Ferrari 250GTO is worth a lot more then say a new M3 but it is worth a hell of lot money because it is more appealing to a lot of people then a new M3.

bravenrace wrote: In reply to 93EXCivic: What is all this "way more" that you get? Horsepower - No. Gas Mileage - No. Interior room - No. Lower price - No. So what is it that makes this car worth more? Don't tell me things like nimble handling, because that doesn't make it worth more, it makes it a more appropriate car to buy for someone who makes that a priority. What content does it have that makes it more valuable than the others?

Different people have different priorities. It all depends what you value, and what "turns you on" behind the wheel.

It's fine that some don't like the FR-S.....it's fine that some don't care for the Mustang or Genesis Coupe. We are clearly not all going to agree. This is why there are many cars to choose from. Fortunately IMHO all of these cars represent very good value for the $$. You may not agree with me, but that's just because you are wrong.......I'm good with that!

I will say, as a business and marketing student, it really sounds like Toyota/Subaru hit one out of the friggin' park. Lord knows what Fiat would pay to have all y'all creating this much hubbub about the 500. Like it or not, everybody sure is talking about it a ton!

That's all. You can go back to your never-ending, pointless, cyclical argument now about how a car you'd never buy anyways is too expensive or how a used car is a better deal, because, you know, who goes out to buy new Accords when used ones are such a better deal?

Joe Gearin wrote:

bravenrace wrote: In reply to 93EXCivic: What is all this "way more" that you get? Horsepower - No. Gas Mileage - No. Interior room - No. Lower price - No. So what is it that makes this car worth more? Don't tell me things like nimble handling, because that doesn't make it worth more, it makes it a more appropriate car to buy for someone who makes that a priority. What content does it have that makes it more valuable than the others?

Different people have different priorities. It all depends what you value, and what "turns you on" behind the wheel. It's fine that some don't like the FR-S.....it's fine that some don't care for the Mustang or Genesis Coupe. We are clearly not all going to agree. This is why there are many cars to choose from. Fortunately IMHO all of these cars represent very good value for the $$. You may not agree with me, but that's just because you are wrong.......I'm good with that!

I actually do like the FRS. The cost and price of cars are determined by the content of the car and how much it costs to make it. Yes, the profit margin is greater or lower based on demand, and that is exactly what I'm talking about. Preferences have absolutely nothing to do with the cost of making a car. Content, overhead, etc.. do. I'm saying there isn't enough content in the FRS to justify the price. You are talking about something else.

I think the FRS would be a great car at $20k. I think there are better choices for me at current prices.

Bravenrace---- Think what you like. I disagree and find the FR-S (at $25K) to be a hell of a deal. You may not agree--- that's ok.

Joe Gearin wrote:

The0retical wrote:

Bobzilla wrote:

NOHOME wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: I'll take the new 270hp Gen coupe for $25k. Thank you. Oh... is this where we say "I told you" to those that said FR-S's wouldn't be overpriced?

That is funny because here in Canada the Genesis, the Mustang and the Miata all cost significantly more than the FRS/BRZ. I could not convince myself to repeat the Miata experience and the other two just are not fun to drive on a daily commute where I do 90% of my driving.

Great. I live in the US. Gen Coupes are $25k. FRS's are $30+k (or are until morons quit paying the jacked up price).

Not to needle you here but I would like to hear what you said about the Miata when it was initially released with the dealer markup. Was it overpriced at the time? Was it underpowered for what you get? Would you rather have a big GT/muscle car instead? Prices will come down on it dealers are just caching in on the 3 or 4 years worth of hype generated by the all the generated by Toyota. Some people just like small cars like the Miata or FR-S rather than a muscle car or a GT car which the Mustang and Genesis fall into respectively. Personally if I had been around in the 60s and 70s I'd have preferred the British sports car to a Mustang or Camaro. You're comparing apples to oranges with all the statements about numbers and I'm not sure it has the relevance you think it does.

+1 I can understand comparing on price, but the driving experience of the FR-S is much different than a Mustang or a Genesis Coupe. All 3 are great cars, and each has their strengths and weaknesses. We may as well throw the WRX, Civic Si, and MS3 in the discussion if we are comparing ALL cars in the $25-$30K range. The FR-S will be the "perfect" car for a small amount of enthusiasts. If you value nimble handling, RWD, and a very focused driving experience, the FR-S and Miata are the only (new car) semi-affordable choices that come to mind. Shame the dealers are gouging. I wonder what Scion corp thinks of this......

last time i did a search for solstice coupes, there were a couple new ones still for sale, and one was asking iirc 65 grand, for an auto non-gxp even.

bravenrace wrote: In reply to 93EXCivic: What is all this "way more" that you get? Horsepower - No. Gas Mileage - No. Interior room - No. Lower price - No. So what is it that makes this car worth more? Don't tell me things like nimble handling, because that doesn't make it worth more, it makes it a more appropriate car to buy for someone who makes that a priority. What content does it have that makes it more valuable than the others?

....and this is why all new cars have 15 airbags, heated mirrors, mood lighting and dvd screens for the passengers riding in the trunk.

93EXCivic wrote:

bravenrace wrote: In reply to 93EXCivic: That makes it more appealing to you, not worth more money. What I'm talking about is content vs price, not things that are a matter of preference.

Well more appealing usually equals worth more money. I mean a Ferrari 250GTO is worth a lot more then say a new M3 but it is worth a hell of lot money because it is more appealing to a lot of people then a new M3.

No, it's more money because it's rare. Limited quantities drive up the prices.

rotard wrote: I think the FRS would be a great car at $20k. I think there are better choices for me at current prices.

This x1000. I think the base FRS/BRZ at $20k would be a good deal. At $25-35k there's way too much competition and better deals.

In reply to Joe Gearin:

So if someone made the perfect car for you, absolutely your dream vehicle, and it cost them $10k to build it and they were asking $40k for it, you'd buy it because you like it that much?
I'm not arguing with you, but just trying to make the point that the appeal of a vehicle to anyone has nothing to do with what it cost to make it. It may not cost all that much, but a high profit margin equals less value, and visa versa. And if a car has a high profit margin it's because there are people willing to pay that for it, but it doesn't change the content of the vehicle. You're saying you'll pay more, or that the price of the FRS is a hell of a deal, because you like the car. I'm saying it's not a good value because there isn't enough content to justify the price. Now, did you place your order yet?

Bobzilla wrote:

rotard wrote: I think the FRS would be a great car at $20k. I think there are better choices for me at current prices.

This x1000. I think the base FRS/BRZ at $20k would be a good deal. At $25-35k there's way too much competition and better deals.

If it was $20k, I very likely would own one right now.

bravenrace wrote: In reply to 93EXCivic: That makes it more appealing to you, not worth more money. What I'm talking about is content vs price, not things that are a matter of preference.

Wait, how does power count as "content" but handling is only a matter of preference? Is this simply because power is easily quantifiable, or... ?

In reply to ReverendDexter:

Power is a feature. Handling is a characteristic. It generally costs more to produce a higher powered engine, but it doesn't necessarily cost more to make a car handle a certain way. It's more a matter of tuning.

The FRS has a computer screen display, keyless entry, power door locks, power windows, A/C, power mirrors, cruise control, 8 speakers, 6 airbags, ABS, VSC, and whole bunch of other things I don't understand. What else do you want in a car? Built in ass-wiping function? Personally I am hoping the release a stripper model without most of that E36 M3 so I can buy that.