Steering Feel Thread

So... just a thought on my mind lately. What makes for good steering feel? What cars have the best steering feel?

Good steering feel comes down to how much the steering tells me about what the front tires are doing, while at the same time cutting out the high frequency nasty vibrations that just make a car tiring to drive. My benchmark is an E30 with an E36 rack, no power steering (deleted with a loop to limit pressure buildup in the rack), and all new suspension components.

Coincidentally, my experience has been that the front tires on a car with good steering feel will last longer on the track than one that doesn't, because you can feel right when the tires are at their limits. You're not just pushing the tires around everywhere.

My benchmark is a Lotus Exige, followed by an old 911 with a manual rack... then an E30 with an E36 M3 rack.

I.... actually like my MX6.

It's not smooth, and it suffers from bump steer pretty badly. It's HARD to steer.

But you feel EVERYTHING. I like that.

I actually might like it a little better than Miata, though the Miatas are much "easier."

What will make it better?

Solid rack bushings and poly or rose jointed everything else is the best thing for steering feel imho. Nothing improves communication like getting rid of squishy e36m3

From cars that I've owned, the best is probably my old '74 X1/9, followed closely by my 944 Turbo. The E36 was also decent and my BRZ is close to the Porsche as hard as that is to believe. The best I've driven is without a doubt an Elise, followed closely by a Europa.

I will tell you who does not have good steering feel any longer, and that is BMW. My dad's '14 3 series has horrible feel. A Camry feels more sporting, no lie. I cannot put into words how bad it really is. I had to drive it for a couple of days last week and it is appalling. Worse yet, they just bought a brand new X5, and it is insanely bad too. It used to be all BMWs felt a little special, now there is nothing at all special about them other than a host of electronic nannies. I've not driven the new M3, etc., so not sure if it transfers across those lines, but that used to not matter. Sad days....BMW has morphed into an Oldsmobile.

By contrast, his old 5 series and X3 felt closer to a Porsche.

It's like pornography, I don't know how to describe it but I'm happy when I have it.

Best I've experienced is a manual rack FC RX-7. RX-8 is really good. My civic has pretty good feel as well.

scardeal wrote: So... just a thought on my mind lately. What makes for good steering feel?

Light front ends, near zero camber, minimal scrub radius, a little bit of steering lead (not sure what the automotive term is - it's kind of the equivalent of scrub radius but in the fore/aft plane), and narrow tires with a good amount of sidewall.

Take away any of those and you hurt steering feel. Steamroller tires are the worst, they tramline and have NO kind of self-aligning torque because the contact patch is so short and wide. (Think of trying to paddle a tiny barge instead of a canoe) To get around this, the manufacturers violated other Rules of Feel in order to manhandle the tires into following a straight line, which kills feel even more.

911s have historically had awesome feel. Have only really had opportunity to sample one, an SC with relatively low profile tires (like to say 195/65-15) and my brain melted at how awesome the steering felt. I also thought 70s Mercedes were great, unfortunately have sampled many SLs and SELs from that era. (Awful awful seats and WHAT IS THAT WEIRD SMELL??? It's like cleaning solution times a raunchy fart and they all smell like that)

I absolutely loved the steering in my '80 RX-7. Had it on the alignment rack, it had .75 degrees positive camber. So I rotated the strut tops in to knock that down to .25 positive. Steering feel got heavier and less precise, so I sent it back to the way it was. The car had an 18mm rear bar (reason #16 why SAs are way better than FBs) and it was already pleasingly neutral even with +.75.

sesto elemento wrote: Solid rack bushings and poly or rose jointed everything else is the best thing for steering feel imho. Nothing improves communication like getting rid of squishy e36m3

I have to disagree. That increases harshness but does nothing for feel. Basically it just makes the steering mumble louder

Porsche 944/951.

For the street I like it with power. For the track I like the power rack with the pump disabled / removed.

I am not sure what had better feel, the X 1/9 I had or the 911. The Lancia Montecarlo was close too.. but it had awful brakes to make up for it

I never new what steering feel was until I got my first E21 BMW, that is my personal benchmark.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: My benchmark is a Lotus Exige

This. One Million Times this.

I remember going to the press launch for the Exige S at Spring Mountain. The confidence that the car inspired was nothing short of epic. There was the right amount of feedback so you knew exactly what the tires were doing at any given moment, but the right amount of damping to filter out the noise and leave only signal. My F500 comes close, and a F2000 I drove once came close as well, but the Exige nailed it.

For me, good steering feel means that steering resistance builds slightly as slip angle increases. The amount is not as important as the linearity of the build, or, rather the direct relationship of the build in steering resistance wit slip angle. They must always be proportional. Upon breakaway, steering effort should also break, and be quick to return once traction is reestablished.

I kind of imagine it like the BC comics. How would those wheels feel? What would it feel like if you were just holding the sides of the wheel and turning it, essentially feeling everything it feels. Now that that concept and run it through a filter. A gate filter for you audio types. Chop off the extreme highs and lows of response where no real information exists, mostly just noise. Leave me the area where all the good stuff is.

Exige wins hands down (among cars I've driven).

Formula cars rank high, but it's not really a fair fight with door slammers.

The Panoz GTS had exceptionally good feel for a car with somewhat large slicks.

1988-1992 Civic/CRX Si are the best of the FWD bunch yes, even better than the FWD Elan if you're asking me)

Fox Mustangs had surprisingly good steering feel, in that you could feel exactly how much the rest of the chassis sucked. Some great strides are made with the S197 and later cars, though.

Tires make a huge difference in steering feel. They can make or break it. Even within the same class of tire, there are big differences. I think stiff sidewalls are a big factor. I really like the steering feel of the EVO 8 and 9, it's almost telepathic without requiring too much effort.

Yes to Formula cars, no idea what rack is in my Novakar F500 but the D-Sports used a 914 rack both are/were very good.

Yes to the 911, Lotus and the X 1/9

The Datsun 1200 has very good feel and it uses a box.

No bites on a Miata? They're very good as well.

My favorite or favorites for road cars are Lotus and Porsche Cayman.

The worst hands down the Dodge Spirit my father owned in the 90s

Tom

I have to say my non power 280zx steering is pretty great. You can feel everything.

To me, the steering feel in this was better than it is in my FR-S (even though the chassis communication in the FR-S trumps everything else I've driven - and I drive more via chassis communication than actual steering feedback):

It had the stock steering rack depowered, devalved, and sealed...and weight balance was also shifted forward and CoG lowered.

Boost_Crazy wrote: ......I really like the steering feel of the EVO 8 and 9, it's almost telepathic without requiring too much effort.

Very much the benchmark for me. The Evo 8 just has something that tells you everything you need to know.

Aw11 is my pick. Light steering that wound up perfectly with tire load. Full poly and an aftermarket steering rack.

Good steering feel is the wheel telling me what the front tire contact patch is experiencing. This might be one of the best things that the Toyobaru Twins do.

Great steering feel (feedback) is not strictly a steering rack phenomenon. It is the sum total of the suspension design and setting. Note also that is is not really needed to go fast, just that it makes it more pleasant do do so.

Another vote for E36.

The steering feel in my Skyline is surprisingly excellent despite it's late 80s power steering. Easily the best steering feel I had in any car but I have not driven anything without power steering so idk what real connection really feels like.

I'm going to do full bushing refresh soon so i'll see what it's like after that.

I have heard that someone at ZF said the Alfa Milano had the best steering feel of ant car that they had ever made a rack for. Having owned one for a while I wouldn't argue. Especially after adding much more caster than was originally listed for the alignment specs.