STi vs EVO?

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Evos seem to be much quicker and better handling mod-for-mod than WRX/STis just from my experiences. A subie is probably a nicer daily driver, but man i would do despicable things for an Evo 8/9. I would probably do none of those things for a WRX/STI.

I'm sure I will be ostracized for this, but I LOVE the boxer engine sound. It makes me lean toward the STi on engine sound alone.

z31maniac wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Evos seem to be much quicker and better handling mod-for-mod than WRX/STis just from my experiences. A subie is probably a nicer daily driver, but man i would do despicable things for an Evo 8/9. I would probably do none of those things for a WRX/STI.

I'm sure I will be ostracized for this, but I LOVE the boxer engine sound. It makes me lean toward the STi on engine sound alone.

The noise is mainly because of the exhaust design in this case. If you heard an STi with equal length manifolds, you would probably wet yourself.

The '09-10 WRXs are a good value, as you can fix the "soft" suspension pretty easily, and they offer really good power out of the box. Stock for stock, I've seen some that are quicker than the equivalent STI.

A lot depends on how you're planning on using the car. If you're looking for a fun DD, I'd go with the WRX, but if you're planning for significant track time, the STI drivetrain is really stout. With the '02-'07 WRXs, it isn't cost-effective to swap in the STI bits (transmission, hubs, axles, etc.) into the WRX. If you want the STI components, it's makes more sense to just buy the STI.

I looked again last night, and I think resale values have increased on the '05-06 STIs compared to what I've seen for the last few years. I think a lot of the STI guys don't like the newer generation as much, so the previous generation has seen some appreciation. I'm seeing solid examples go between 17-20K, with many asking far more than $20K. With that being the case, a later-model WRX would probably give you the most value for your dollar...

z31maniac wrote: I'm sure I will be ostracized for this, but I LOVE the boxer engine sound. It makes me lean toward the STi on engine sound alone.

Put me in the same camp, I love the exhaust note on a WRX/STI!

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

z31maniac wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Evos seem to be much quicker and better handling mod-for-mod than WRX/STis just from my experiences. A subie is probably a nicer daily driver, but man i would do despicable things for an Evo 8/9. I would probably do none of those things for a WRX/STI.

I'm sure I will be ostracized for this, but I LOVE the boxer engine sound. It makes me lean toward the STi on engine sound alone.

The noise is mainly because of the exhaust design in this case. If you heard an STi with equal length manifolds, you would probably wet yourself.

Yeah, I know it's because of the unequal length madness to get everything to fit, right?

Any links to vids with equal length manifolds?

z31maniac wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

z31maniac wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Evos seem to be much quicker and better handling mod-for-mod than WRX/STis just from my experiences. A subie is probably a nicer daily driver, but man i would do despicable things for an Evo 8/9. I would probably do none of those things for a WRX/STI.

I'm sure I will be ostracized for this, but I LOVE the boxer engine sound. It makes me lean toward the STi on engine sound alone.

The noise is mainly because of the exhaust design in this case. If you heard an STi with equal length manifolds, you would probably wet yourself.

Yeah, I know it's because of the unequal length madness to get everything to fit, right? Any links to vids with equal length manifolds?

This is my favorite.

http://youtu.be/YiQ6FcyiPag

Also, the 09-10 was mentioned......I'm sure the 11+ WRX's are still the same "underated" motor?

Basically I would want something to put some nice wheels/tires on, lower a touch without making it uncomfortable for DD use, and see how much reliable power can be made with an intake/downpipe/exhaust/tune and enjoy.

Sounds like the WRX may actually be a better fit than the STi.

I need two hands to count the turbocharged Subaru engines that have required rebuilds in my club. That includes mine.

I'll never buy another boosted Subaru.

Meanwhile, we have a guy who has POUNDED on an Evo for 8 seasons straight with ZERO issues. He's also significantly faster than the SM Subaru guys, despite running on street tires.

DaveEstey wrote: I need two hands to count the turbocharged Subaru engines that have required rebuilds in my club. That includes mine. I'll never buy another boosted Subaru. Meanwhile, we have a guy who has POUNDED on an Evo for 8 seasons straight with ZERO issues. He's also significantly faster than the SM Subaru guys, despite running on street tires.

That's the other swaying decision on my part. Evos (at least the 8/9s) seem to take a lickin' and keep on tickin'.

DaveEstey wrote: I need two hands to count the turbocharged Subaru engines that have required rebuilds in my club. That includes mine. I'll never buy another boosted Subaru.

What kind of power levels? Mileage? Were the tune's professionally done on a dyno to ensure safe A/F ratios and knock counts?

No personal experience other than owning Subarus in the past and what a few guys in my auto-x region run. My heart says Subaru. My brain says Evo. My wallet says neither.

I really want a new EVO X, but $38k for the SST + needing an additional trans cooler for any hard use, is a pretty tough number to swallow.

Especially on a car that it seems needs quite a bit of pricey maintainence to properly maintain.

Are you planning on tracking this car? If so, how often? Both can be very expensive to track on a frequent basis. My friend with the STI (and now EVO) bought a dedicated track car after tracking the STI for a year. His other issue with it was that he felt more comfortable tracking a less expensive car. Better to make a $5K mistake than a $20K mistake...

I had a '06 STI for a little while. I liked the motor, good low end torque, but ran out of breath up top, but the seats were ungodly uncomfortable and the build quality of it SUCKED. Interior was a rattle trap after 4000 miles, you could scratch the center console with your finger nail, carpets thin, paint thin, etc.

I test drove a few Evo 9 MR's and I liked they way they felt more, good power all the way to redline, much better recaro seats, but a more spartan interior that reminded me more of a econo car. No cruise control.

I like the idea of the new STI/WRX body style as a hatchback is very useful, but in the end, I know the interior will drive me crazy and a Golf R is about the same money new...

dj06482 wrote: Are you planning on tracking this car? If so, how often? Both can be very expensive to track on a frequent basis. My friend with the STI (and now EVO) bought a dedicated track car after tracking the STI for a year. His other issue with it was that he felt more comfortable tracking a less expensive car. Better to make a $5K mistake than a $20K mistake...

Most likely not at all. Maybe once or twice just to see, but I'm already developing my sales pitch to the wife.

I currently have a truck and I'm building a '90 Miata as a streetable track car (cheap, durable, won't cry to hard if I hurt it).

So, we don't use the truck for "truck things" as much as we thought we would, and I have plenty of friends I could borrow one from for the occasional times we need it or go rent one.

So my plan is to illustrate the Miata can be a reliable car that I can drive to and from the track, with no need for a tow vehicle (Hallett is only 30 mins from my house.)

Then be able to keep the Miata for track work and have the EVO for DD duties.

z31maniac wrote:

DaveEstey wrote: I need two hands to count the turbocharged Subaru engines that have required rebuilds in my club. That includes mine. I'll never buy another boosted Subaru.

What kind of power levels? Mileage? Were the tune's professionally done on a dyno to ensure safe A/F ratios and knock counts?

Mine was pushing about 280 at the wheels, so 320-330hp at the crank. A/F was 11.0:1 under full boost, which peaked at 18psi and tappered toward redline. Zero knocking in the datalogs. Professionally tuned. 63k miles and there goes the bearing in cylinder 3 (common occurance).

The last one requiring a rebuild was an STI pusing about 330 at the wheels, less than 30k miles. Tuned by a shop with a very good reputation. Blew out a ring land (common occurance).

One of my sponsors is a performance shop. They used to specialize in Hondas, but the amount of Subarus coming in for engine rebuilds has been HUGE. As in expanded the business to keep up huge.

Yikes, that's a bit frightening.

I find the level of complexity in the later Evos to be terrifying, the drivetrain is a lot like a Veyron's with computer-managed torque split, yaw control, and on and on and on. And then the rest of it isn't super-simple either. I think if I owned one I'd have nightmares about something going slightly wrong with it at any time.

Were is the best place to look for an unmolested example of either one? Modified ones, at least ones with kiddie owners, scare me.

Appleseed wrote: Were is the best place to look for an unmolested example of either one? Modified ones, at least ones with kiddie owners, scare me.

Same here, I'm not just scared, but terrified.

It would be very hard to buy a car like this used (for me anyway), even one that is well-taken care of has likely been beaten on non-stop. Not that I wouldn't drive one hard, but I'm over-zealous on maintenance, and wouldn't beat it to within an inch of it's life.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: This is my favorite. http://youtu.be/YiQ6FcyiPag

Why must every youtube video have music over the noises I'd like to hear?

docwyte wrote: I test drove a few Evo 9 MR's and I liked they way they felt more, good power all the way to redline, much better recaro seats, but a more spartan interior that reminded me more of a econo car. No cruise control.

I've thought about this a bit. If you're buying a car that wasn't offered with cruise, therefore a factory option is not available, you could use one of the cruise control add on kits. Guys on advrider.com add these to their touring bikes all the time. I know they'd work well in a sports car too.

My Miata has a cruise control add-on kit. Factory never offered the MSM with cruise.

It's not a big deal.

z31maniac wrote:

Appleseed wrote: Were is the best place to look for an unmolested example of either one? Modified ones, at least ones with kiddie owners, scare me.

Same here, I'm not just scared, but terrified. It would be very hard to buy a car like this used (for me anyway), even one that is well-taken care of has likely been beaten on non-stop. Not that I wouldn't drive one hard, but I'm over-zealous on maintenance, and wouldn't beat it to within an inch of it's life.

I love my Saabaru (WRX clone) and it has served me well. But in my opinion subie motors suck for any kind of tracking or racing. The engines were designed for econoboxes and their biggest handicap, the oiling system, shows that. If you want a double duty track car get the mitsu for two main reasons. The superior engine and the vastly better transmission and transmission/diff controls. For a DD I would buy a WRX or a Saabaru because of the cheap paint and interior on the mitsu. The Saabarus tend to have older owners than WRXes and so they are less ricey and tend to be in better shape than the WRXes and EVOs. The trade off is that you only get the 5mt and tdo4h and you are still paying 8k-11k for a 7 year old car!

Funny, I thought the paint and interior on my STI was cheap!

Yes, cruise can be added to the Evo, but I thought it a funny omission from the factory especially since the lower model Lancers come with it.

In reply to docwyte:

Oh dont get me wrong, Subaru paint and interiors suck, its just that the EVO is based on an even suckier econobox than the STI.