On the surface, a driver harness seems so simple: Some webbing is strapped across the driver’s hips and chest and secured to the car. Once you start considering the forces at work, though, it gets complicated. HMS Motorsport, the U.S. distributor for Schroth harnesses, publishes a harness safety checklist and allowed us to share it with our readers. If every …
Don't do this. If you're gonna use a six-point harness, use it correctly. This guy even has holes in the seat to properly use his harness and save his testicles, but he choose not to. He bought a six point harness and turned it into a five point.
I went through this with Midlana. I received contradictory advice from belt manufacturer websites regarding recommended belt routing and angles, which was surprising since the physics is the same. Had to just go with the set of instructions that seemed to make the most sense.
As an SRF racer, that cover photo gave me a cold shiver.
Whats the deal with harness bars? Everyone I've heard says just get a rear hoop, as it comes with roll-over protection. Is there a use case for harness bars in autox or hpdes?
In reply to w123mb :
There is no use case for harness bars. So close to a proper roll bar in cost, installation and making the back seat unusable, but more dangerous than stock safety gear.
In reply to w123mb :
Its a case of all or nothing. If you are using a harness it should be part of a roll hoop (at a minimum) and you should also be wearing some kind of head and neck device.
If you're not doing that then as Tom mentioned the standard factory 3 point is the way to go.
In reply to RadBarchetta :
Could you elaborate please? Should the camlock be just closer to the hole or is there something I'm missing that shows a way to split the two crotch straps before they go through the seat?
If your track car is your daily driver, I'd like to offer a different view of a harness bar vs roll hoop. Most of the cars we tend to use are small and fitting a proper roll bar with enough clearance to drive the car without a helmet is a challenge. For instance, I put a Hard Dog roll hoop in my Miata and anything but the most minor collision would put me in danger of banging my melon on the padded rollbar. Even wioth the padding, that would be bad. I just got a Cayman, so I will only be driving the Miata to the local autocross and for local track days. I daily the Cayman and, although really nice harness bars are available, the seats don't have shoulder harness ports, so I wear a Simpson Hybrid S in that car.
A proper harness bar, like a four-point hoop, allows the use of racing harnesses and HANS with a good racing seat, which is much more safe than a factory seat and 3-point belt. The better seat and harness will cut time off your laps right away, too. If the car has good rollover protection as built, a harness bar may be your answer. Most convertibles are another story, though.
My other cars all have proper roll cages, door bars, etc which are far superior to a harness bar or roll hoop, but just wanted to make the case for a harness bar in some situations.
In reply to Tom Suddard :
I'm curious how a harness bar, with a proper seat, 5-6 pt harness and HANS is more dangerous than the factory seat and 3 point.
RadBarchetta said:Don't do this. If you're gonna use a six-point harness, use it correctly. This guy even has holes in the seat to properly use his harness and save his testicles, but he choose not to. He bought a six point harness and turned it into a five point.
I have not seen any race seats with 2 holes for a 6 point with 2 crotch straps.
amg_rx7 (Forum Supporter) said:RadBarchetta said:Don't do this. If you're gonna use a six-point harness, use it correctly. This guy even has holes in the seat to properly use his harness and save his testicles, but he choose not to. He bought a six point harness and turned it into a five point.
I have not seen any race seats with 2 holes for a 6 point with 2 crotch straps.
They exist. Admittedly it's hard to find in seat advertisements since they rarely show a good view of the hole patterns. Some seats combine the three holes into one triangular hole. Kirkey does this a lot. You usually have to ask the manufacturer or the vendor for such details. Look very closely at the one in the picture. That one has such holes. If you start at the cam lock and move your eyes straight down from there, you can see one of them.
I should clarify that I'm not saying that doing this is unsafe. Just that it it isn't any safer than just using a 5-point. You're just spending extra money for that sixth belt and not getting any benefit out of it.
DaleCarter said:In reply to Tom Suddard :
I'm curious how a harness bar, with a proper seat, 5-6 pt harness and HANS is more dangerous than the factory seat and 3 point.
The problem is that if the roof structure gives way in a rollover the factory 3 point moves with it allowing your body to be shoved along with it. A race seat, harnesses and HANS holds your body in place so your head and neck end up supporting the car.
Whether or not that possibility is outweighed by the improved control from the harness and, the theoretical, resulting reduced chance for crashing in the first place could be debated.
In reply to APEowner :
The chances of a newer car landing on their roof hard enough and in such a way to exceed the built-in rollover protection are far slimmer than getting into any number of other crashes where having a proper harness and seat would provide superior protection to a stock seat and belts.
There are some really interesting videos about vehicle race safety and they talk about this topic a bit.
i can't find the ones I've really liked but will keep looking and post when I find them
In reply to jfryjfry :
This is one of the better ones I've watched/listened to from HMS motorsports (GRM sponsor).
In reply to jfryjfry :
I agree. Combining the safety systems (street and race) produces compromises and I think it's important to understand what the compromises are. For me, I drive street cars on the track with enough margin that the chances of wrecking are pretty low. Probably lower than on the street where there are many more factors that are out of my control. If I'm really going to push a car on track it's going to have all the gear.
In reply to adam525i :
Great video. Thanks for posting it. I'm going to be installing a center net this winter after watching the halo seat fail entirely at 1:05 mins. They also make a great point about the halo seat protection failing in an offset front impact.
Also thanks to GRM for this article. This type of content can (will) save someone's life.
You'll need to log in to post.
