Teach me the world of HD pickups.

So I am shopping around for 3/4 ton pickups. I am planning on towing things of various weights. I want 4WD, diesel, and preferably crew cab with a long bed.

Seeing how expensive used trucks are, I see that 10-12 year old trucks are in my price range.

So I really have no preferences, all the HD trucks I like, but I'd like to know the ups and downs of the PowerStroke (6.0L seems to be all I'm finding), Duramax, and Cummins.

Also what about the transmissions of that era? I wouldn't mind a manual, but those are far and few inbetween, so what's up with the automatic transmissions of that era? Are they pretty stout or glass?

What Say Ye?

Duramax be careful with the first ones (LB7), they have injector issues that can get expensive to fix. Later Duramaxes still have occasional injector failures, but at least you don't have to take as much crap off to replace them.

The Allison that comes behind the Duramax is awesome.

OK, a couple of overview thoughts:

• How much weight do you intend to tow regularly? Makes a difference. Bigger the load, bigger the truck.

• 6.0L's are always discounted price, because they are perceived as crap. 6.4 is a better engine. 6.7L is probably out of your price range.

• 7.3L is incredibly reliable. Don't be afraid of a high mileage one (300K+). Pull the oil cap and check for blow-by. Minimal blow-by, thing will last forever.

• 4WD reduces towing capacity.

• Diesels only pay when you drive LOTS of miles, and fuel is high. If you are going to drive less than 40K per year, you will get more truck in a gas burner (this coming from a devout diesel driver).

• Manual trucks are rare, but they are also cheap. Don't expect it to drive like a sports car (clutches are often so stiff that you have to stand in the seat to depress the pedal)

• Crew cab long beds are REALLY long. It's like driving a freight train. I hate them. I would only have an extended cab long box, or a crew cab short box.

• If you need the long bed, AND want to tow big, consider a dually.

• Cummins engines are awesome. Too bad they attach them to Dodges. Nothing else good to say.

• Codrus is right. The Allison is awesome. But the Ford is quite adequate. The Dodge is not.

Manuals with a diesel are often not cheap, however. The ZF-6 trans behind the Ford 7.3, 6.0 and 6.4 diesels with a manual is pretty solid though. And the clutch isn't anything awful to deal with.

From what I've been told by all the diesel heads. The 6.7 is the best of the Ford diesels (if you can afford it). The 6.4 is the worse, even compared to the 6.0. 7.3 second. The 6.0 3rd or 2nd if bulletproofed.

Tomorrow, I'm picking up a very clean, meticulously maintained 6.0 4x4 crew cab long bed f250 Lariat that's been bullet proofed already. And it's stock. No lifts ever, no exhaust, no tunes, never bro'd, and from the original owners who never flinched at dropping coin to keep it reliable.

I had a buddy of mine check it out, he's a Ford mechanic. Got the Oasis report, carfax, the owner sent me every document of work it's had done. He said the truck is in amazing condition and he can't believe it's 10yrs old. He told me if I don't buy it then he will. The owners bought a brand new F350 dually so they don't need two big ass trucks.

I know you were planning on hitting disney sooner or later. 7.3 powerstrokes are berkeleying cheap in orlando.

Edit- or ask aussie steve to get you a sampson. He seems to know where all the giant E36 M3 is.

Yes, the 6.7's are probably the best Powerstroke engine.

They are, however, saddled with a ton of electronics. Maintenance is difficult and expensive.

7.3s are pretty bulletproof but a bit short on power. The 6.0 is definitely better in the power department and isn't a bad engine, although it does have some issues. They're all fixable so they'll never come back though. And the 6.0 also comes in the 05+ trucks with the coil spring front end (better ride, better turning radius than the earlier leaf fronts).

I recall the best truck would be a Super Duty with a Cummings and Alison. But those don't exist.

rslifkin wrote: 7.3s are pretty bulletproof but a bit short on power.

Mine has no shortage of power, although it does have a simple reprogram. +100 hp was 5 min worth of plug-n-play tune, and boosted the fuel economy to over 20 mpg.

In reply to Brian:

Oh, some idiots probably assembled one or two while smoking meth.....don't smoke meth Brian, don't smoke meth.

Rob, a duramax with proof of injector service or a 6.0PSD WITH documentation proving head studs and egr delete were done. Other than that, you're after a completely stock truck.

I've never really seen any proof that 4x4's cannot tow the same loads in the modern era, more the less just additional parts that could go wrong on highway haulers(and even our RV haulers are rocking 4x4's now)

As far as what you are looking for, you'll typically be able to get a dually cheaper than a SRW crew cab. I would also personally skip the Dodge, unless you absolutely want a manual(those will run you $Texas however) Far too many have been turned up or completely screwed up by "bros"

WOW Really Paul? wrote: I've never really seen any proof that 4x4's cannot tow the same loads in the modern era...

Here you go:

2016 Ford HD Truck towing specs

As the chart shows, there is a lot more to it. Some configurations are equal, but when there is a variation, the 4x4 is rated for less.

Older trucks were worse. Like several thousand pounds difference.

Usually on newer trucks, the de-rate for payload and towing on the 4wds is about equivalent to weight difference in the running gear.

In reply to WOW Really Paul?:

I have been debating between SRW and DRW, but DRW are a bit harder to come by at least in my area. I was told by my buddy who does the type of hauling I'm getting into, that he suggest 4WD because there are times that you will need it for sure.

My problem with all the Fords is that all I'm finding are 6.0L Diesels. I found a few Dodges, but I'm always scared of their transmissions. I'd like to find a Chevy or GMC, but those seem to not be in my price range.

The Dodge autos can be a little questionable durability wise, depending on how they've been cared for. I wouldn't be too scared of them though, as the 47RE and 48RE in the older trucks you're looking can be built to be damn near bulletproof.

In reply to WOW Really Paul?:

No, no meth. Although I did enjoy my years of ADD meds. Close enough.

rslifkin wrote: The Dodge autos can be a little questionable durability wise, depending on how they've been cared for. I wouldn't be too scared of them though, as the 47RE and 48RE in the older trucks you're looking can be built to be damn near bulletproof.

Well that's the problem. I'm banking on them not having ever been rebuilt.

Picked up my F250, the trip home was 495 miles. Got 18.4mpg, with 76 miles to empty remaining. Lots of canyon roads and driving up steep mountain roads and lots of LA traffic.

Overall I'm very happy!

SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: I am planning on towing things of various weights.

SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: I was told by my buddy who does the type of hauling I'm getting into...

OK, there is part of this story you have left out.

If this is a commercial application, a lot of the recommendations could change.

You may not want 3/4 ton. You may really need a dually. Or bigger. You probably don't need 4WD, unless you are hauling port-o-potties to Alaskan gold mining sites.

If we knew what you were hauling, we might be able to give you better information, or throw some business your way.

Iirc he was talking about hotshot car hauling. At least thats what the texts said.

My favorite combo by far is the duramax/Allison. I have had 7.3 ps with auto, 5.9 cummins with auto, 6.2 gm with auto, and currently have 7.3 ps with 5 speed and lb7 duramax with Allison in an 02 chevrolet cc 4x4 dually. Absolutely love that truck. It had 133k on it when I bought it and was showing signs of injector failure, slight smoke basically, but ran great. I took that into consideration when making the purchase and had the injectors done not long after I got it. With the good injectors, not the super cheap ones on eBay, new lines, and a bunch of while you in there stuff like flow plugs I was out about 3k total. I put 20k miles on it over the last year and a lot of that was towing......couldn't be happier.

Btw I also had to put injectors in my current 7.3 ps, but that was at around 200k.

mndsm wrote: Iirc he was talking about hotshot car hauling. At least thats what the texts said.

OK, if that's the case, he may really want that long bed dually (especially for something like a 3 car hauler).

If it's long distance hauling, stick with the diesel.

The long bed crew cab truck is tolerable on the Interstate. Just no fun to drive around town.

SVreX wrote: The long bed crew cab truck is tolerable on the Interstate. Just no fun to drive around town.

It's not the driving that's the problem, it's the parking. :)

Cotton, did you DIY the injectors on your LB7, or did you pay someone to do it? Mine are due, and the cheapest quote I've gotten for it is $5K.

codrus wrote:

SVreX wrote: The long bed crew cab truck is tolerable on the Interstate. Just no fun to drive around town.

It's not the driving that's the problem, it's the parking. :) Cotton, did you DIY the injectors on your LB7, or did you pay someone to do it? Mine are due, and the cheapest quote I've gotten for it is $5K.

Shop around. I paid 1k to have mine put in, with me supplying the parts. They did the lines and a few other little things while they were in there. When I got quotes for the entire job it was generally much higher. I got my injectors and lines from Lincoln Diesel Specialties. I got the stock reman Bosch injectors and at the time they were around 1600 a set. I also upgraded to the cat filter and adaptor at the same time. I did help a friend put his injectors in, but after that I felt the 1k was money well spent.....sucky job.

I just bought a truck yesterday. I've towed lots with my 6.0 gasser but with my current 5er with the flat deck and dirt bikes behind it it was just too taxed in the mountains. It would tow it but slowly at times and revving its guts out. Not that it was bad, just not relaxing to do. And I wanted a crew cab as my kids and dog no longer fit in the extended cab.

I'm a GM guy but the Duramax trucks really command a premium around here so I had pretty much settled on a 6.0 Ford, bought cheap and then bullet proofed. But then a really decent '04.5 (LLY) Duramax/Allison/Crew sort of fell in my lap for about $3k less than market value around here. It's got good maintenance history and aside from one dent and some gravel rash it's clean. My mechanic buddy did an injector balance test and all came back good with the exception of a leaky pinion seal.

For true work use, I think the Ford trucks are tougher, but the D-max Allison is so sweet to tow with. And the GM trucks really are the nicest riding trucks for sure so it meets my needs perfectly.

I think a stock D-max is nearly as reliable as a 5.9 Cummins, the Allison is far superior to the Dodge trans, and the Dodge trucks of that era are rough and crude IMO.