ufmarkm
ufmarkm GRM+ Memberand New Reader
9/9/12 12:34 p.m.

Any ideas on slowing down/smoothing out the clutch takeup? It is pretty much a race clutch. I love the car, but it's a challenging one to use as a driver's ed sled. We're still at neighborhood speeds so we haven't gotten to the boost-and-torque steer discussion yet...

MrJoshua
MrJoshua PowerDork
9/9/12 12:48 p.m.

At idle-try to get her to let up the clutch just enough to get the car to barely move, then push it back down. Then come to a complete stop and repeat the process until she is able to do that without thinking. That will teach her the point at which the clutch is starting to engage and how to manipulate the clutch pedal speed at that point for smooth engagement.

integraguy
integraguy UltraDork
9/9/12 1:20 p.m.

Back in the mid '70s I thought i would introduce my younger sister to the joys of driving a car with a manual transmission. At the time I owned an Audi Fox. If it were me, I WOULDN'T start your daughter out on a MS3....I'd find a "beater" type of car for her to try, first. Perhaps an older Honda?

Datsun310Guy
Datsun310Guy UltraDork
9/9/12 1:56 p.m.

My 21 year old wants to learn stick on my 2011 Accord 5-speed work car. I need my car to make sales calls and I hope to buy a beater Z car he can learn on.

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago GRM+ Memberand Dork
9/9/12 2:03 p.m.
MrJoshua wrote: At idle-try to get her to let up the clutch just enough to get the car to barely move, then push it back down. Then come to a complete stop and repeat the process until she is able to do that without thinking. That will teach her the point at which the clutch is starting to engage and how to manipulate the clutch pedal speed at that point for smooth engagement.

This. Worst that happens is a stall; no worries about burning a clutch. I use this same method to teach people.

emodspitfire
emodspitfire Reader
9/9/12 2:49 p.m.

Do the first sessions on a gravel/dirt road. My daughter picked up the technique in one or two sessions.

Rog

ultraclyde
ultraclyde Dork
9/9/12 4:54 p.m.

I've driven a stick for years and I had trouble with the clutch in the ms3 I test drove. It's super light and comes on like a light switch. I could see getting used to it, but I'd sure find something else to teach on.

Twin_Cam
Twin_Cam UltraDork
9/9/12 5:04 p.m.

My mom has a regular non-Mazdaspeed 3, and the clutch in that thing baffles me. I either lug the engine or do a 5K rpm clutch-destroying drag race start. There's no middle ground. So, unless the MS3 is different, you may just want to find a different car for her to learn on.

JtspellS
JtspellS HalfDork
9/9/12 5:06 p.m.
ultraclyde wrote: I've driven a stick for years and I had trouble with the clutch in the ms3 I test drove. It's super light and comes on like a light switch. I could see getting used to it, but I'd sure find something else to teach on.

I agree 100%, My old MS3 was one of the most odd clutch engagements ever.

If i could suggest any type of vehicle it would be an older truck due to the fact those clutches can have the best direct feel and are quite strong if the child does not catch on that quickly.

Good luck!!!

mndsm
mndsm PowerDork
9/9/12 5:07 p.m.

The ms3 is probably the most unfriendly clutch i've ever driven, this side of a heavy duty clutch'd 67 GTO. And I own the thing. What the person above says about clutch takeup is the right idea though. Its the only way you're going to learn that in that car.

dj06482
dj06482 GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
9/9/12 8:22 p.m.

Mr. Joshua's advice is spot-on, it's how I finally learned...

MrJoshua
MrJoshua PowerDork
9/9/12 8:51 p.m.

I feel special.

ufmarkm
ufmarkm GRM+ Memberand New Reader
9/9/12 9:50 p.m.

Good advice guys, thanks! @Integraguy, you mean, like my old Integra? Yeah, that would be a much more appropriate sled for this purpose. It seems like some geometry changes in the clutch pedal setup could make it more normal. In any case, we'll spend some more parking lot time on MrJoshua's technique. I learned on my dad's Saab 900 Turbo, as I recall it was a whole lot easier (and had two fewer forward speeds)

The MS3 is the hardest to use street car clutch I've ever used, but on the plus side the micro-takeup technique helped me out last weekend dealing with a failing clutch master cylinder on the spec miata during an enduro at Sebring. My co-driver got the short end of the deal though, as he drove the second half of the race and we determined on post-race inspection that the clutch was moving pretty much not at all from the pedal...

I figure if she can learn to operate this car halfway smoothly, any car she ever ends up with on her own should be a breeze...

BoostedBrian
BoostedBrian Dork
9/9/12 9:59 p.m.

"Dad, when I tried to make the light it just jumped over to the right! I swear!"

"Yes honey, that's the torque steer I warned you about."

That's all I have to add to this thread. You can now go about your day.

novaderrik
novaderrik SuperDork
9/9/12 10:44 p.m.

i taught my 12 year old nephew to drive my 98 Cavalier.. we never made it out of first gear because his hand was in a cast from a motocross crash, but he didn't kill in in 4 or 5 stops and starts in the yard.

mndsm
mndsm PowerDork
9/10/12 2:35 a.m.
ufmarkm wrote: Good advice guys, thanks! @Integraguy, you mean, like my old Integra? Yeah, that would be a much more appropriate sled for this purpose. It seems like some geometry changes in the clutch pedal setup could make it more normal. In any case, we'll spend some more parking lot time on MrJoshua's technique. I learned on my dad's Saab 900 Turbo, as I recall it was a whole lot easier (and had two fewer forward speeds) The MS3 is the hardest to use street car clutch I've ever used, but on the plus side the micro-takeup technique helped me out last weekend dealing with a failing clutch master cylinder on the spec miata during an enduro at Sebring. My co-driver got the short end of the deal though, as he drove the second half of the race and we determined on post-race inspection that the clutch was moving pretty much not at all from the pedal... I figure if she can learn to operate this car halfway smoothly, any car she ever ends up with on her own should be a breeze...

For frame of reference the ms3 clutch is widely referred to as a stage 3 street clutch in ms3 circles. For FURTHER frame of reference, current horsepower king is 700+whp on the bottle...stock clutch, stock trans, stock axles. On the plus side of things, she won't toast your clutch. I've tried. On the minus side of things, I've owned one for 5 years and the bastard still tricks me sometimes. One time, a guy I knew thought his car was broken, because it liked to buck and chatter when he shifted. Turned out he spun it to like 2500 rpm before shifting. I test drove it for him, with him in the car. Once the car finally caught traction in 3rd.... he realized he just needed to adjust his shift points. And he refused to ever ride with me again.

chandlerGTi
chandlerGTi HalfDork
9/10/12 7:41 a.m.
Twin_Cam wrote: My mom has a regular non-Mazdaspeed 3, and the clutch in that thing baffles me. I either lug the engine or do a 5K rpm clutch-destroying drag race start. There's no middle ground. So, unless the MS3 is different, you may just want to find a different car for her to learn on.

My MZ5 is just this way, I joke that I have to relearn to drive everytime I get in it. Good luck with the learning, my dad taught me in a Dodge Warlock 4spd at the top of a gravel road hill. Took three times to figure it out and never looked back.

dj06482
dj06482 GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
9/10/12 8:24 a.m.
ufmarkm wrote: I figure if she can learn to operate this car halfway smoothly, any car she ever ends up with on her own should be a breeze...

That's the truth. I learned on my dad's 1977 Chevy C10 straight 6 with a 3 on the tree. That truck was pretty easy. What I really cut my teeth on was my 89 Chevy C1500 4.3 5spd that was one of the trickiest manuals to drive. It gave my parents fits, and both of them daily drove manuals for much of their life. Once I got that one down, though, any other manual was really easy.

corytate
corytate Dork
9/10/12 7:24 p.m.

New car clutches, man....
The kia has a clutch VERY similar to the regular mazda 3: it's tricksy.
I'd vote for 5 speed toyota truck. Those are the easiest I've found so far lol

RexSeven
RexSeven SuperDork
9/10/12 9:11 p.m.

My first manual car was a Saab GM900 with a stretched-out clutch cable, so I damn near had to put the pedal through the floor to disengage the clutch. I think in part because of that, I didn't have much trouble with my old MS3's clutch - except on hills. I would always sweat being on hills because people behind me would give me no rollback space and honk whether I took my time or stormed off in a haze of tire smoke. Makes me appreciate my Mustang's hill-hold feature that much more.

I would try to find an isolated place with little to no traffic and a small incline to teach your daughter how to handle a manual car on a hill. She will need to use the e-brake and eventually shake off people honking at her, and the occasional stall.

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