In reply to Antihero :
Datsun/Nissan A-series were in 1200s, B210s, 210s and 310s they were manufactured from 1968 to 2007.
In reply to Antihero :
Datsun/Nissan A-series were in 1200s, B210s, 210s and 310s they were manufactured from 1968 to 2007.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:te72 said:Much as an E70 with extra cylinders would be fun, my inclination as a fellow (former) E70 owner would be to put one of these engines in it:
5-valve 4AGE from an AE111, because they sound awesome and make 160hp out of the gate, with a bit more on the table if you want. Plus, factory ITB's. Did I mention the awesome sound? They sound awesome. Likely my favorite 4-cylinder sound ever. Something about Yamaha makes good sounds. They should make instruments and audio equipment, they clearly know what they're doing! =P
3SGE Beams, if you wanna keep it in the family but want an easy 200+hp.
K20/K24 if you wanna drop a few lbs, add displacement, and make Formual Atlantic power without FA maintenance.
I know I need to get out of my own way, but I'm still stuck in my hot rodding history. To me, making 200hp at 8000 rpms is a yawnfest, but making 500hp at 6000 rpm is my norm. Of course, it takes a 700 lb V8 lump to do it. I've driven some fast-straight-line cars, like a blown 502 making 1000+ hp, and I've driven some "quick" cars with 140 hp. I'm still stuck in this world of combining bigger power with a light car. I was hoping for at least a square 250hp, maybe a touch more. Not so much that I'm pointed the wrong direction out of every corner when I get back on it, but high 12s would be nice in a straight line.
If you're wanting power in a light package, K24 all day. Naturally aspirated 300hp isn't difficult. If you wanna spend some money, power is definitely an option. I'd be more focused on making sure the chassis is up to the task though. 200+ hp in a ~2000 lb car is a healthy balance. 300 would be a riot, particularly if you haven't added 500 unecessary pounds to the nose of the car, ruining the balance.
Paradise Racing should be on your list, from what I recall, if drag racing is your game. =)
te72 said:Paradise Racing should be on your list, from what I recall, if drag racing is your game. =)
Challenge is my primary game. Cheap, fast, and turns hard.
Streetwiseguy said:I'm more entertained by "good" engines that I think are scrap. Specifically, the BMW M42. Timing chains
, and I once bought three engines trying to find a crank with a thrust surface intact.
Yeah, the timing chains aren't the greatest, but I took one to 300k miles with 8 psi of boost and many track days. I only tore it down because I got overzealous with timing and melted pistons at IMS because super long straights on a hot day. Probably thanks to all the timing, it was keeping pace with a bolt-on S52 E30 track car on the straights. It's definitely not the best sounding engine in the world, though.
I haven't read the whole thread, but I will say I rather love my 4G63T in my Chariot. I remember when the DSM cars were new, and people E36 M3ting all over how unreliable they were (and Mitsubishi in general). Maybe that's true, but in my ownership of this car for 20 or so months I love love love this engine. More powerful that it deserves to be as a 2-litre 4 cylinder, and seems to like to rev even though it does run out of steam around 5k. Now I need to knock some wood before it blows up on me later today.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:te72 said:Paradise Racing should be on your list, from what I recall, if drag racing is your game. =)
Challenge is my primary game. Cheap, fast, and turns hard.
A Challenge E70? K24 all day long my friend. The performance and style for the money is strong with this idea. =)
Here's one (and I am not sure anyone mentioned this yet): The Chevrolet 305 V8.
Yes, the 350/400 bolts in the same spot, but if you are looking for a small V8 that runs forever (and it will do so terribly) and takes lots of abuse, the 305 is game. I've had experience with a variety of 305's over the years, from the computer controlled carbureted ones to Tuned Port Injection examples in the F-body. They made OK power for the time, responded decently to bolt-ons, and made the right sounds. Have fun with them until they explode, IF they ever do!
Some fun 305 stories:
-My friend had a 1985 C10 Custom Deluxe with a 305 that would not die. Odo had 250k+ on it, but it stopped working, and he estimated it must have had 275k on it at least. One day, we were heading on a junkyard run, and we blew a radiator hose. We were about 10 miles from the yard, and he decided to make a game out of it: would it make it to the junkyard with no coolant? Not only did it make it, but we grabbed a hose AND coolant from their community coolant trough there, dumped it in, and got home. The 305 was unfazed and could care less. He drove it for 2 years after that until the trans blew for a 2nd time. The day it got towed away, I gave it an adult beverage and it even ran off of that!
-Same friend had a Monte Carlo with the LG4 305. On stock internals, he fed it a 150 shot of nitrous by accident a number of times (he thought it was a 75 shot) and got some enjoyment out of it for a few weeks until ring chunks came out the tail pipes.
-I had a 1983 Z28 briefly, and it also had the LG4 305. I bought it as a former parts car, so stuff was missing. I cobbled together everything I needed to get it running, and right away it barked off. The kicker: it had the loudest rod knock I had ever heard! But it idled PERFECTLY beyond all comprehension. Aside from the worst engine sounds I've heard to this day, the thing ran great!
Tony Sestito said:Here's one (and I am not sure anyone mentioned this yet): The Chevrolet 305 V8.
Yes, the 350/400 bolts in the same spot, but if you are looking for a small V8 that runs forever (and it will do so terribly) and takes lots of abuse, the 305 is game. I've had experience with a variety of 305's over the years, from the computer controlled carbureted ones to Tuned Port Injection examples in the F-body. They made OK power for the time, responded decently to bolt-ons, and made the right sounds. Have fun with them until they explode, IF they ever do!
Some fun 305 stories:
-My friend had a 1985 C10 Custom Deluxe with a 305 that would not die. Odo had 250k+ on it, but it stopped working, and he estimated it must have had 275k on it at least. One day, we were heading on a junkyard run, and we blew a radiator hose. We were about 10 miles from the yard, and he decided to make a game out of it: would it make it to the junkyard with no coolant? Not only did it make it, but we grabbed a hose AND coolant from their community coolant trough there, dumped it in, and got home. The 305 was unfazed and could care less. He drove it for 2 years after that until the trans blew for a 2nd time. The day it got towed away, I gave it an adult beverage and it even ran off of that!
-Same friend had a Monte Carlo with the LG4 305. On stock internals, he fed it a 150 shot of nitrous by accident a number of times (he thought it was a 75 shot) and got some enjoyment out of it for a few weeks until ring chunks came out the tail pipes.
-I had a 1983 Z28 briefly, and it also had the LG4 305. I bought it as a former parts car, so stuff was missing. I cobbled together everything I needed to get it running, and right away it barked off. The kicker: it had the loudest rod knock I had ever heard! But it idled PERFECTLY beyond all comprehension. Aside from the worst engine sounds I've heard to this day, the thing ran great!
Fun 305 story:
In a Monza that weighed what? 28XX? with the throttle response of a little Rochester Dual-jet, they would push you back into the seat FAR beyond what their 140 SAE net hp rating would suggest. In fact, by early '80s standards when I had mine, you could even call them fast.
My 82 Camaro had the 145 hp 305. I voided the warranty less than 3 months in with an Edelbrock Performer and a Comp 260h cam. Still slow, but it would pull beyond 3600rpm.
I don't think the 305 has ever been considered a bad engine, just a case of "why bother?" considering you could put a 350 or other more powerful (and not any heavier) engine anywhere a 305 can go.
I think someone earlier in this thread asked about the inverse of this: what engine is percieved as good, but actually horrible.
The #1 candidate in my experience is the Slant Six. Has a reputation for being robust, but its pretty awful in practically every regard, and in my experience doesn't tolerate abuse/run any longer than most other engines.
ProDarwin said:I think someone earlier in this thread asked about the inverse of this: what engine is percieved as good, but actually horrible.
The #1 candidate in my experience is the Slant Six. Has a reputation for being robust, but its pretty awful in practically every regard, and in my experience doesn't tolerate abuse/run any longer than most other engines.
I'll add the Jeep 4.0 to that list. It's supposedly bulletproof and has insane amounts of low end torque. No. Early versions are pretty durable, but nothing unusual. Starting in 96 when they made changes, they break piston skirts occasaionally for no reason. And then after the next round of changes in 99/2000, they randomly crack cylinder heads unprovoked.
Power-wise, they're not particularly impressive, nor do they make a crazy amount of torque. Looking at Grand Cherokees, any of the V8s that's ever been offered makes more torque by 1500 RPM (in some cases by 1000 RPM) than a 4.0 does at peak.
At best, it's a perfectly average engine that was acceptable power for some of the lighter vehicles it was used in. But it doesn't even come close to deserving the level of worship it receives.
In reply to ProDarwin :
22R. I killed 2 within 4 months. Didn't abuse or race them. To be fair, this was 20 years after the last one was made, so they did have miles on them, but I wasn't impressed.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:te72 said:Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:Growl_R said:How 'bout Volkswagen's VR6 and it's W8, 12 and 16 variants?
Used in VW, Audi, Porsche, Bentley, and Bugatti
Compact, can make power and SOUND AWESOME!
Sell me on this. If I pick up the AE70 Corolla I'm hoping for, I'll be looking for something that fits where a 4-banger was and makes lots of gooder power. I just know nothing about them.
Much as an E70 with extra cylinders would be fun, my inclination as a fellow (former) E70 owner would be to put one of these engines in it:
5-valve 4AGE from an AE111, because they sound awesome and make 160hp out of the gate, with a bit more on the table if you want. Plus, factory ITB's. Did I mention the awesome sound? They sound awesome. Likely my favorite 4-cylinder sound ever. Something about Yamaha makes good sounds. They should make instruments and audio equipment, they clearly know what they're doing! =P
3SGE Beams, if you wanna keep it in the family but want an easy 200+hp.
K20/K24 if you wanna drop a few lbs, add displacement, and make Formual Atlantic power without FA maintenance.
I know I need to get out of my own way, but I'm still stuck in my hot rodding history. To me, making 200hp at 8000 rpms is a yawnfest, but making 500hp at 6000 rpm is my norm. Of course, it takes a 700 lb V8 lump to do it. I've driven some fast-straight-line cars, like a blown 502 making 1000+ hp, and I've driven some "quick" cars with 140 hp. I'm still stuck in this world of combining bigger power with a light car. I was hoping for at least a square 250hp, maybe a touch more. Not so much that I'm pointed the wrong direction out of every corner when I get back on it, but high 12s would be nice in a straight line.
If you want 240 hp n/a, the K24 is probably your best bet. The 3SGE is not a terribly common engine to source, and they go for around $3k now, and getting a 4age to 240 hp would require very deep pockets. K24s are available everywhere you look and have a pretty stout aftermarket, though you'd obviously be looking at doing some custom fab work to get the motor into the AE70, along with whatever rwd transmission you use.
You could also get a 13b to make that sort of power without boost, but it would likely be just a little less civilized in operation. The advantage here is that this swap has definitely been done ad nauseam so you'd have a blueprint to follow. I like keeping it all in the family though, so if I had an AE70 I'd go 3SGE with throttle bodies and maybe see if there's an E85 tune available for it..
ProDarwin said:I think someone earlier in this thread asked about the inverse of this: what engine is percieved as good, but actually horrible.
The #1 candidate in my experience is the Slant Six. Has a reputation for being robust, but its pretty awful in practically every regard, and in my experience doesn't tolerate abuse/run any longer than most other engines.
I think LS1s are garbage given their ability to drop valves and explode bottom ends.
The whole world knows small block Chevys are garbage because there is a multi million dollar industry dedicated to fixing all of the flaws built into them when the whiz kids make a super cheap Kettering style V8 in the early 50s.
Toyota 2JZs are junk. Well built junk but junk. Bottom ends heavy as a Diesel so they can't rev, three different intake ports so they can't breathe. All they are good for is throwing boost into like some dumb Diesel engine because they can't make power by spinning or breathing. There is a good reason why one of the top Japanese tuners modded a Supra by first dumpstering the 2JZ to make room for something better.
I want to see more ford duratec/jag AJ30 action in rear wheel drive (with a manual please). Same with the VR6. For no other reason than I think they are cool engines.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
When this thread started I almost posted that somebody actually had the balls to call the small block Chev a piece of junk recently. I remember asking the manager of the machine shop I deal with about a particular engine, and if they ever see any. He said if that was an indicator, then the small block must be the worst engine ever made because they see more of them than anything, and we laughed. Oh how we laughed.
There is a good reason why one of the top Japanese tuners modded a Supra by first dumpstering the 2JZ to make room for something better.
LS?
In reply to Peabody :
Nissan RB26.
For whatever reason, there seems to be a cultural mental block against engine swaps in Japan, so when I learned of this I was really surprised.
The 2JZ seems to have flaws, but it also is capable of producing an insane amount of power on a stock block. I find it hard to classify as 'horrible'. Same with the LS.
Funny the RB26 is mentioned above, didnt MotoIQ have an article about how their significant flaws?
I can't call a Subaru engine 'horrible', but damn their reliability record is bad. Now that I have a BRZ I've paid more attention and it seems people that track them blow them up left and right.
Oh well at least its easy to work on and a replacement can be found in any appliance. berkeley, nevermind I'm thinking of a K series.
rslifkin said:I'll add the Jeep 4.0 to that list...
I wonder if my XJ had a 5.2 if it would still get 22mpg though? I love my 1996 4.0, fully knowing it's a time bomb. But 190hp in a 3000lbs car was nothing to sneeze at in 1996.
The Honda J-Series V6 is actually fantastic, but Honda won't put it in anything fun anymore. The closest they got was the Acura TL-S and TL SH-AWD. HPD even sells a version to LMP and Baja teams called the HR35TT, which is the same architecture as the J35 from an Odyssey minivan engine, but VTEC is deleted, rods/pistons are forged, the intake manifold is improved, and they bolt a turbo to each siamese exhaust port. 
buzzboy said:rslifkin said:I'll add the Jeep 4.0 to that list...
I wonder if my XJ had a 5.2 if it would still get 22mpg though? I love my 1996 4.0, fully knowing it's a time bomb. But 190hp in a 3000lbs car was nothing to sneeze at in 1996.
The XJ was probably the best application for the 4.0. It was the lightest vehicle they used it in by a good margin. TJs, ZJs, and WJs are all a lot heavier, so the MPG difference for 4.0 vs V8 is a lot smaller. And the 4.0 isn't a great performer in any of them (particularly the ZJ/WJ). I don't really get why they didn't offer the 5.2 in the TJ, considering it's not significantly heavier than a 4.0. The worse gas mileage in the V8 ZJs is partly because they geared them slightly shorter than the 4.0s. If they'd put the V8 in an XJ with tall enough gearing, it would still have done well on the highway.
My complaints with the 4.0 are mostly centered around the coil pack ones with the 0331 head. The piston skirts are only an occasional issue, but it's something like 20 - 30% of all 0331 heads will crack without ever being overheated. And they crack on the top side, so they puke coolant directly into the oil, meaning it's often not noticed until the bearings are trashed.
I've already got 3.07 gears. Maybe I could go lower with a 5.2! Funny that my Jeep is geared to do 160+
I've heard nothing good about the coil pack engines. Dizzys are archaic but at least cheap and easy to work on and diagnose. Plus my engine was replaced at 220k, so I figure my piston skirts are good for a bit longer.
I'll nominate the Audi 2.8L 12v SOHC V6.
Common arguments why it's terrible: Leaks oil from everywhere, makes mediocre power, unmodifiable, but at least they're reliable...
I'm pretty heavily into this engine and can counterpoint virtually everything. My argument though is that they are actually a good engine that got a self-defeating rep. The 12v was also book-ended by the highly-successful 20v turbo Inline 5 cylinder, and then by the very tuner-friendly 20v turbo Inline 4 cylinder. The aftermarket barely touched this engine and most modifications were self-developed by enthusiasts.
Now, it doesn't help that most versions have an un-modifiable Hitachi ECU which is a killer to serious mods. But a lot of power can be gained with porting the intake and smoothing the airflow through it's rather convoluted intake system.
It also doesn't help that it's a high(ish) compression engine that requires 91 Octane, and The ECU will pull timing aggressively if any knock is detected.
Lastly, the PCV system is over-complicated and clogs easily, which leads to crankcase leaks. Add an easily clogged EGR port and slightly complex vacuum system, and it's very easy for the intake tract to develop post-MAF leaks that make it sluggish and run poorly. But the killer is that it will continue to run when neglected, so people just keep them going and complain that they have no power...
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In reply to MadScientistMatt :
Is this the same motor as the Ford duratec v6?
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